Your DC-Only controversial opinions...

[Robanker]

Know what "Controversial Opinion' this reminds me of? Nightwing fans should be more appreciative of what they've got. Most of their more specific complaints about his situation are perfectly valid, but when I see people angry because he doesn't have the same level of in-universe reverence as the main JL members and talking about how DC hates the character and are constantly mistreating him, it just comes off to me as spitting in the face of the good fortune they have as to have a favorite character who will always have a solo book (one which until recently has been bi-monthly) and will usually be a part of at least one other book, not lacking in appearances elsewhere either.

Speaking as a Nightwing fan, I think it comes from remembering he's Dick Grayson, the first and most iconic Robin, who is their fourth-most represented character in general media outside the trinity. I would argue more people know about Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman and Robin than any of the rest of the Justice League. Moreover, it's well-established that Didio has gunned for him in the past and he's not the most beloved figure in the DC offices. It can become easy to feel he's getting shafted when someone's constantly got a gun pointed at his head... But even so, we're very lucky with respect to other characters. I love a ton of B, C and D-listers and Nightwing is always getting stories told about him. He even recently got an Elseworlds title! I don't like Damian, but he's very popular and even he doesn't get a solo.

[DrNewGod]

The Nu52 was the right idea with execution that was mostly wrong, when it wasn't ignored. It's what DC should have done clear back in 1986; they might have been able to keep the Post-Crisis continuity running well and just now be needing to consider a reboot, rather than all the patch plumbing the last 32 years have handed us.

[Robanker]

The Nu52 was the right idea with execution that was mostly wrong, when it wasn't ignored. It's what DC should have done clear back in 1986; they might have been able to keep the Post-Crisis continuity running well and just now be needing to consider a reboot, rather than all the patch plumbing the last 32 years have handed us.

See, I'm the other side on this one. I got into comics /because/ of the long, storied histories of each character and the depth of the universe. I was exposed to the characters through movies and Batman the Animated Series on Saturday mornings. I wanted to read more adventures of these characters. The idea of going to the source and finding out that there's only three years that "matter" now going forward seems antithetical to that. I was amazed at how much had happened in just Batman's life, for example. Instead of feeling daunted that there was so much, I was thrilled. It's like watching a great season of a show you thought was over and finding out there were a ton more. Could you watch them all? Probably not, but it's a wealth of content you're excited about!

I understand that for some, starting at the beginning and reading it /all/ is what's appealing a concept... But those readers won't be able to keep up with every book (or how expensive this hobby is) and will quickly be forced to compromise which books the pull or leave. I think cape comics are the worst hobby for people with OCD because it's too expensive and there are way too many cooks in the kitchen.

Where DC stumbles is the reverence for continuity that hamstrings them and constantly trying to overexplain things. Sometimes simple solutions work the best. I could spend a day writing about why Batman actually makes no sense, but it's just more fun to go with the conceit and read about Gotham's greatest protector. Update. Refresh. Spin off. Retcon. Iterate. Those all are better paths to take than out-and-out rebooting. Marvel's had one long continuity more or less since inception and they've done just fine in sales over the years. I don't think history is the problem.

[DrNewGod]

See, I'm the other side on this one. I got into comics /because/ of the long, storied histories of each character and the depth of the universe. I was exposed to the characters through movies and Batman the Animated Series on Saturday mornings. I wanted to read more adventures of these characters. The idea of going to the source and finding out that there's only three years that "matter" now going forward seems antithetical to that. I was amazed at how much had happened in just Batman's life, for example. Instead of feeling daunted that there was so much, I was thrilled. It's like watching a great season of a show you thought was over and finding out there were a ton more. Could you watch them all? Probably not, but it's a wealth of content you're excited about!

I understand that for some, starting at the beginning and reading it /all/ is what's appealing a concept... But those readers won't be able to keep up with every book (or how expensive this hobby is) and will quickly be forced to compromise which books the pull or leave. I think cape comics are the worst hobby for people with OCD because it's too expensive and there are way too many cooks in the kitchen.

Where DC stumbles is the reverence for continuity that hamstrings them and constantly trying to overexplain things. Sometimes simple solutions work the best. I could spend a day writing about why Batman actually makes no sense, but it's just more fun to go with the conceit and read about Gotham's greatest protector. Update. Refresh. Spin off. Retcon. Iterate. Those all are better paths to take than out-and-out rebooting. Marvel's had one long continuity more or less since inception and they've done just fine in sales over the years. I don't think history is the problem.

Oh, my first advice back in 1986 would have been, "Leave it alone. You don't want a Superhorse in your continuity, just don't write about one and ignore ever having done so." But if they were determined to "clean up" the brands, then my advice would have been, "no halfway measures. Close the story of Earth 1, launch the story of Earth (pick a number), and never look back."

[Robanker]

Fair enough, that I can't argue with. The half-hearted effort that was their New 52 roll out was a poor decision. "Commit or get off the pot," as is said in more polite tellings of that phrase.

[Ascended]

First off, Harley still ain't more popular than Diana.

Second, how exactly is a character with a bi-monthly solo and frequent minis and one-shots, whose also the leader of a (until recently) bi-monthly team book, makes incredibly frequent and prominent appearances in outside media, including a leading role in a DCEU film with possibly a second on the way, and an almost literal infinite amount of merchandise treated like a red headed step child?

Don't forget, she's also been called the fourth pillar of DC Comics by one of the most important members of their company.

Harley is far from a red-headed stepchild. She gets more love than anyone, except perhaps, Batman himself.

[Nite-Wing]

First off, Harley still ain't more popular than Diana.

Second, how exactly is a character with a bi-monthly solo and frequent minis and one-shots, whose also the leader of a (until recently) bi-monthly team book, makes incredibly frequent and prominent appearances in outside media, including a leading role in a DCEU film with possibly a second on the way, and an almost literal infinite amount of merchandise treated like a red headed step child?

Know what "Controversial Opinion' this reminds me of? Nightwing fans should be more appreciative of what they've got. Most of their more specific complaints about his situation are perfectly valid, but when I see people angry because he doesn't have the same level of in-universe reverence as the main JL members and talking about how DC hates the character and are constantly mistreating him, it just comes off to me as spitting in the face of the good fortune they have as to have a favorite character who will always have a solo book (one which until recently has been bi-monthly) and will usually be a part of at least one other book, not lacking in appearances elsewhere either.

There's a difference between doing business and doing good business
DC has been doing business with Wondy even though she is only now just getting up there with Harley
DC is currently in the practice of making money off of Harley Quinn aka doing good business. There is no real investment to see the character grow and flourish
In a weird way I have the same complaints for Harley that Nightwing fans have. A character can get a 100 minis a year, an animated series, and a movie but if DC is only doing it because it benefits them and not because they want to then when it doesn't benefit them Harley will end up like Nightwing

[Slim Shady]

I confess, I'm a big Harley Quinn fan.

[Pohzee]

Know what "Controversial Opinion' this reminds me of? Nightwing fans should be more appreciative of what they've got. Most of their more specific complaints about his situation are perfectly valid, but when I see people angry because he doesn't have the same level of in-universe reverence as the main JL members and talking about how DC hates the character and are constantly mistreating him, it just comes off to me as spitting in the face of the good fortune they have as to have a favorite character who will always have a solo book (one which until recently has been bi-monthly) and will usually be a part of at least one other book, not lacking in appearances elsewhere either.

I get where you are coming from, but I obviously disagree. You are correct that compared to nearly any other character of the DCU- barring the Trinity and a few other members of the Justice League- Nightwing has far more exposure in both comics and outside media. And I also know that you take the view of characters based on perceived quality of character rather than iconography or significance. So from your point of view*, Nightwing good treatment because he receives more appearances than the average character.

However, other people, including myself believe that characters of more perceived “importance” command an disproportionate representation in comics. Dick Grayson isn’t just lucky that he appears more than, say, The Elongated Man. Dick Grayson is the first kid sidekick in comics, creating a generation of superheroes and indeed the concept of generational superheroes. Dick Grayson’s growth into adulthood and graduation to Nightwing was a landmark change for DC Comics. Dick Grayson is, per ComicVine, DC’s third most published hero ahead of Wonder Woman, behind only Superman and Batman. Dick Grayson let the New Teen Titans as DC’s highest selling book above Batman, Superman, and the Justice League in the 1980’s. Dick Grayson as Robin is nearly as ingrained in the general public’s knowledge as Bruce Wayne-Batman or Peter Parker Spider-Man. So, not to condescend, but he’s kind of a big deal. And he should be.

But what’s frustrating is that so much of this success stems from his time as Robin. Nightwing is treated by DC as “Just Another Robin.” He receives mediocre solos with new or mediocre writers. DC lets the Titans franchise flounder. His status as the third most published DC hero is about to be surpassed by Wonder Woman. And it shouldn’t be that way.

*Feel free to correct me if any of this is a false representation of your views, but given your posting on this forum I think that it is fairly accurate.

[Ascended]

I confess, I'm a big Harley Quinn fan.

Same. Not gonna apologize. Harley has become a fascinating, interesting character who always entertains and who has a story that I believe needs to be told.

Every time I see a girl dressed up as Harley, I hope to god they actually know and understand her character, because Harley's is a cautionary tale and story of recovery worth listening to. She's become one of the gems of comics.

[Frontier]

I consider myself a Harley fan, but there's a part of me that's just kind of done with "anti-hero" or heroic Harley that DC keeps pushing.

Like, I get people who enjoy her in her new heroic bent but personally I really liked the Karl Kesel Harley run where she broke up with Joker but was still an unabashed and dangerous criminal. I just think it did a better job of developing Harley as a solo character without needing to try and distance or do away with the elements that made her who she is from her creation.

[Darkseid Is]

I'll take you at your word that you were drunk when you typed this. It is offensive to people who care deeply about Captain Carrot (or any other character who is not one of the Big Five). So please moderate your language language in fuCture or you will be hearing from Conn Seanery -- and you don't want that.

Sandy Hausler
Moderator

Captain Comet, sir! Get your facts straight!

[DrNewGod]

Fair enough, that I can't argue with. The half-hearted effort that was their New 52 roll out was a poor decision. "Commit or get off the pot," as is said in more polite tellings of that phrase.

IMO, at the time, Mr. Morrison and Mr. Johns were in the middle of speaking on the subjects of Batman and The Green Lantern Corps. And nobody gets to interrupt Mr. Morrison or Mr. Johns (at least at that time) around DC.

[Trey Strain]

Same. Not gonna apologize. Harley has become a fascinating, interesting character who always entertains and who has a story that I believe needs to be told.

Every time I see a girl dressed up as Harley, I hope to god they actually know and understand her character, because Harley's is a cautionary tale and story of recovery worth listening to. She's become one of the gems of comics.

A comic that sells doesn't need to be apologized for. What are anyone's credentials for demanding such an apology?

I don't like Batman, but he sells great, so I just don't read him and keep quiet about the people who do.

[Vinsanity]

Dick Grayson as Grayson should have been still on but also adds in Donna Troy as her partner.

Barbara's Burnside costume was better than Murphy's art.