who should lead the X-men "mutantkind"

[Xelossik]

Kisinith :
Nice. I am Impressed.
1) I don't know why they couldn't pick another leader but ok
2) I simply don't understand why other mutants could live there
3) This is nice.
4 and 5 good arguments here but my problem is that (i didn't read some comics) he was trying to work but mostly using really bad way.
5 of course was really good because leaders shouldn't do everything
7) His speech when he created Extinction team gave me different impression. He knew that he will make a lot of people angry
8 and 9 ... i thought that we don't talk about post AvX Cyclops but i can agree that he became even better. Publicists and Street team was brilliant. Sadly he couldn't send them to UN,
10 as i said be became even better after AvX

Generally i agree with most of your points but then was Schism where he acted terribly. Before Schism 1 he was simply the best (compared to other leaders). In Schism 1 and 2 he was terribly stupid and he really made only mistakes.

Sending Kids to fight terrorists? Oh wait he didn’t, he sent them with senior and experienced X-Men including Magneto and Frost to a museum opening on positive human-mutant relations (hey that kind of speaks to one of those things you claimed he didn't do, community outreach) Also attending was the mayor and a ton of innocent civilians (another one of those pesky points). When the terrorists showed up, incapacitated everyone and tried to murder them all. Then being the totally bad leader and realizing that no one else could make it in time he totally sent Idie in with orders to kill… Oh wait, no that didn't happen either. He told her to do what she thought she had to. She made the decision to kill… and incidentally saved a lot more lives.

I never question his combat abilities. but speech or Quentin ??

Also he didn't cheat Wolverine, Wolverine in an act of sheer Plot Induced Stupidity caused schism.

If I were Wolvie I would stop trusting Scott after Quentin case. Still as i said like 100 times Cyclops was better than Wolvie.

Cyclops is not responsible for the actions of Namor in AvX

That was response to some people who said Exodus fight had shown us that Wolvie was wrong. I have problems with agreeing that these pages shown this because he was betrayed by Rogue. I agree that this pages shown flaws in Rogue point of view.

Thats hardly what was said, I don’t indulge in personal attacks, I will however point out when you arguments are either incorrect or misinformed. Also pointing out that he did the very things you criticize him for not doing is not the same as saying he never made mistakes. He did, and deserves criticism for them BUT, his mistakes were typically nowhere near as bad as his critics here like to pretend they were. He is also one of the most effective leaders (arguable the most effective) that the X-Men have had.

Well saying that he is the best but sometimes stupid plot force him to act differently sound worse than your logical arguments.
After reading your post:
i agree that he was trying.
I agreed many times that he was the best military leader.
I agree that before Schism we was also the best non military leader (your arguments are really good)
I still think that Schism 1 and 2 showed us that he shouldn't talking to politicians. Because he is not diplomat.
I agree that Wolvie in Schism 3 -5 acted stupidly
I still think that he could avoid Schism but made a lot of small mistakes. I've read dozens of issues where he was "cool" and ignored X men needs. And that's why they leaved him.
about long term plans. I think that he had vision and he acted with his vision ignoring rest. And that was his downfall.
I agree that he became better after AvX

[Ra-El]

I don't really care, what I want to see is Cyclops alive, but acting from the shadows to protect mutants. I want him to manipulate events without no one knowing and I will love to see him killing Ulysses.

[somacula]

I don't really care, what I want to see is Cyclops alive, but acting from the shadows to protect mutants. I want him to manipulate events without no one knowing and I will love to see him killing Ulysses.

I think the post cw 2 MU will be optimal for cyclops, captain marvel is acting like the gestapo, Doom will be a hero, technically is dark reign 2.0 and a bad guy of sort like Cyclops will fit right in

[Ra-El]

I think the post cw 2 MU will be optimal for cyclops, captain marvel is acting like the gestapo, Doom will be a hero, technically is dark reign 2.0 and a bad guy of sort like Cyclops will fit right in

Agree, in Uncanny X-Men #6 during Storm's interview is show the reactions of several individuals, in one of the panels appears someone saying that "thist could be useful to my plans", I like to think that was Cyclops.

[Kisinith]

(1) you originally stated that they should have joined the XSE with storm or the UN. I wasn't saying that he was the only leader, just that the XSE was defunct by then and Storm had left the X-books by and large in the marriage to Black Panther. Now as interesting as it is to consider alternatives it is worth mentioning that no one else did step up,for good or ill Cyclops was the only contender for leadership at that point, and by and large his measures typically were not really that extreme.

Also, to the point about working with the UN, Cyclops and the utopian X-men had been shown working with Sword, which if I'm not mistaken was actually a UN force. (I could be wrong here, it's been a long time since I read those issues but even if not part of the UN it was connected to greater world authorities soothe point largely still stands).

When considering Schism, the central argument of Wolverine was that Cyclops had gone too far and was training and sending children into battles, and this was wrong. It's a nice real-world argument, and totally laudable but falls apart in the Marvel U. It also makes Wolverine and the whole gold side look bad, because of how blind it makes them seem and for how frequently they themselves abandoned it when convenient, all the while using it as justification for bashing Cyclops, ultimately over something that he wasn't actually doing.

The scene from the Exodus battle was important not for the fight itself, but for the dialog after, when the kids totally destroyed the central argument of the gold side. The words are what's important, not the battle.

[dragonmp93]

Kisinith :
Nice. I am Impressed.
1) I don't know why they couldn't pick another leader but ok
2) I simply don't understand why other mutants could live there
3) This is nice.
4 and 5 good arguments here but my problem is that (i didn't read some comics) he was trying to work but mostly using really bad way.
5 of course was really good because leaders shouldn't do everything
7) His speech when he created Extinction team gave me different impression. He knew that he will make a lot of people angry
8 and 9 ... i thought that we don't talk about post AvX Cyclops but i can agree that he became even better. Publicists and Street team was brilliant. Sadly he couldn't send them to UN,
10 as i said be became even better after AvX

Generally i agree with most of your points but then was Schism where he acted terribly. Before Schism 1 he was simply the best (compared to other leaders). In Schism 1 and 2 he was terribly stupid and he really made only mistakes.


I never question his combat abilities. but speech or Quentin ??

If I were Wolvie I would stop trusting Scott after Quentin case. Still as i said like 100 times Cyclops was better than Wolvie.


That was response to some people who said Exodus fight had shown us that Wolvie was wrong. I have problems with agreeing that these pages shown this because he was betrayed by Rogue. I agree that this pages shown flaws in Rogue point of view.


Well saying that he is the best but sometimes stupid plot force him to act differently sound worse than your logical arguments.
After reading your post:
i agree that he was trying.
I agreed many times that he was the best military leader.
I agree that before Schism we was also the best non military leader (your arguments are really good)
I still think that Schism 1 and 2 showed us that he shouldn't talking to politicians. Because he is not diplomat.
I agree that Wolvie in Schism 3 -5 acted stupidly
I still think that he could avoid Schism but made a lot of small mistakes. I've read dozens of issues where he was "cool" and ignored X men needs. And that's why they leaved him.
about long term plans. I think that he had vision and he acted with his vision ignoring rest. And that was his downfall.
I agree that he became better after AvX

You know that Wolverine forced Quentin to join his side, right ?.

[idiyona]

Maybe the idea that mutantkind needs a leader is what's holding back the X-Men. They used to be a small team/eventual school in a greater world filled with mutants, humans, etc. but now that X-Haven is their world there's no need to go out unless there exists a direct threat to them creating a sense of isolation. Hell with X-Haven in Limbo and holding almost all that's left of the mutants you can just call the new "leader of mutantkind" a king/queen and you'll be looking at a sadder patchwork version of the old inhumans.

[Xelossik]

Kisinith :

you originally stated that they should have joined the XSE with storm or the UN.

True. XSE was defunct. so what? He created few really defunct team for training and that was good from what I've learned here. He could sent more people to XSE.
I've also said that if you follow Cyclops vision he is the best leader. And terrible if you have different vision, because he usually won't waste time to convince you. After some time he learned and stop making this mistake.

It also makes Wolverine and the whole gold side look bad, because of how blind it makes them seem and for how frequently they themselves abandoned it when convenient

But they didn't abandon their idea. That was only Rogue who acted against Wolvie orders.
How they should react? Stop fighting with Exodus? What would be good ?

There were logical reasons for Schism. X men like Wolvie and Rogue had a lot of reasons to care for childrens (maybe care to much). Maybe childrens are ok with being like Magneto, Rogue or Wolvie. But the problem is... they are ok with being like actual versions of heroes but they missing the most important point. Magneto, Wolvie and Rogue were really unhappy with being soldiers (machines for war). They find happiness when they tried to stop being soldiers.
And those children wouldn't be able say these worlds to old version of their heroes. Wolvie as Weapon X, insane Rogue from Brotherhood, evil Magneto?
Do you really think that they could say that they want to be like them?
Wolvie had few talks with young student who saw herself as a monster. He always thought about project X and his early days then.

dragonmp93

You know that Wolverine forced Quentin to join his side, right ?.

Yes i know. Did I ever defended him? I like Wolvie as outsider. He shouldn't lead people.

[Habis]

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Thats why he needs the power

Dude. the Celestials could have killed them all with a fart. They didn't care the Extinction team's power. If Howard the Duck had been the one to defeat Mr. Sinister and stand there, the Celestials would have barely noticed the difference.

[somacula]

Dude. the Celestials could have killed them all with a fart. They didn't care the Extinction team's power. If Howard the Duck had been the one to defeat Mr. Sinister and stand there, the Celestials would have barely noticed the difference.

Yeah, but howard the duck couldn't have handled Mr sinister, he gave the finger to the celestials (galactus level threats) and they left. That time it was not about power but about results, and he got 'em thanks to his amazing team

[gambitxremy]

Is magneto leading the x-men in in humans vs x-men

[teapartyofthedead]

Considering that he's going to fight Black Bolt (at least if the covers are to be believed), it sure seems like it.

[gambitxremy]

I'm really excited that the once and future king is back in charge.... Magneto