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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I'm sure your equivalent 30 years ago opined that no one would remember the Post-Crisis era fondly....yet here we are.

    Hindsight is 20/20, and nostalgia most always clouds one's view of the past, thus Jennette Kahn is a saint now, and Diane Nelson is Satan to some, even though when it comes to Superman, Kahn oversaw nearly 50 years of the character completely scrapped , while Nelson at the worst oversaw an unfortunate costume change and a marketing gimmick disguised as a relationship. Heck part of the reason we even have the new 52 was Kahns (and Giordano and Levitz's) decision to do comics first ever reboot of a universe in 1985 rather than just using what was already there, thus opening a pandora's box that can never be closed. Yet the most ardent haters of the current era willfully overlook this and paint everything that occurred Pre DiDio as always respectful of the long history of DC Comics, when it was the same then as now really. Some really crappy choices with some good stuff here and there.



    In 30 years our successors here (heck maybe even some of us) will be replacing Ms. Nelson's horns with a halo in relation to whatever changes her successor and their employees makes to the DCU.
    I don't see people treating Kahn or levitz as angels, only as not as bad as today management. It was levitz that let didio start ruining DC universe. First didio tortured and killed stephanie brown, than sue dibny was raped. that is enough right? no put a bullet throught blue beetle skull.

    I would never get a chance to work at DC, I'm too good for that. Doyle was a vertigo and snyder asked him to be batman group editor; if wasn't for Marts going out i'm not sure of we would see Batgirling of dc comics; It was a happy accident.

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorendiac View Post
    Hey, a few years ago, I did the best I could to make up for lost time in that department! Better late than never!

    Specifically: On April Fool's Day, 2012, I posted a "scathing critique" of what was wrong in their first Superman storyline (part of which was published in "Action Comics #1" in 1938, and part of which -- although it had already been written and drawn -- was only published later, in "Superman #1" in 1939.)

    I posted my piece here on CBR at the time, but of course it would have been wiped out last year when the forums got rebooted. Fortunately, I posted it in other places, as well, and here's a link to a copy if anyone is interested.

    When Superman's stories got dark
    An April Fool's joke but still a reminder of his origins and that he's been a much lighter character ever since then.

    And, let's remember, his first serious opponent was a mad scientist who cut the tops of people's heads off (off-panel) to get their brains and, for his first body transfer, put his brain into the body of a beautiful female movie star because he preferred being a woman and a young and beautiful woman.

    Oh, yes. In no way did early Superman comics explore the "unusual". No way there would have been massive Internet criticisms over that in 1938.

  3. #33
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    One theory was that they did it on the eve of the new continuity because they knew there would be a nuclear explosion over it once people realized it was truly a reboot.

    To me, it doesn't matter. Those boards were an unmoderated disaster that were essentially little but people who hated a character or book ruining any chance of enjoyment of discussing them for everybody else.
    Actually the old DC message boards stuck around a few months into the new continuity...I remember as I posted some pretty cantankerous things savaging the New 52 early on there. I've mellowed quite a bit.

    I frankly prefer this one anyway. Most of us here are sane, civil and actually hold discussions unlike the crap that went on there. Good riddance.

  4. #34
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayswift View Post
    I don't see people treating Kahn or levitz as angels, only as not as bad as today management. It was levitz that let didio start ruining DC universe. First didio tortured and killed stephanie brown, than sue dibny was raped. that is enough right? no put a bullet throught blue beetle skull.

    I would never get a chance to work at DC, I'm too good for that. Doyle was a vertigo and snyder asked him to be batman group editor; if wasn't for Marts going out i'm not sure of we would see Batgirling of dc comics; It was a happy accident.
    Well yeah, I'm sort of oversimplifying it...and I give you credit for actually acknowledging Levitz gave us DiDio. Occasionally I see rants about DiDio and esspecially near the start of the relaunch there was a lot of opining that Levitz would have never done this or that...and I'm thinking to myself "Um....you do realize it was Levitz that hired DiDio in the first place to take Mike Carlin's spot and green lighted IDENTITY CRISIS, right?".



    The fact is people are always gonna be pissed off to one degree or another,because changes happen and are necessary to some degree....and changes are gonna piss someone off. Some people will love it...some will hate it with a white hot passion...and the rest just shrug it off and move on. It was that way in 1986. It was that way in 2006 after INFINITE CRISIS. It was that way in 2011 when the New 52 launch happened....and it will happen whenever the next major relaunch occurs.

  5. #35
    Incredible Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Well yeah, I'm sort of oversimplifying it...and I give you credit for actually acknowledging Levitz gave us DiDio. Occasionally I see rants about DiDio and esspecially near the start of the relaunch there was a lot of opining that Levitz would have never done this or that...and I'm thinking to myself "Um....you do realize it was Levitz that hired DiDio in the first place to take Mike Carlin's spot and green lighted IDENTITY CRISIS, right?".
    This sort of reminds me of how Marv Wolfman has occasionally complained that, post-COIE, fans who were angry about any given character death in that 12-part series (such as Kara Zor-El or Barry Allen) often tended to loudly blame Marv -- and nobody else -- for that particular item. As if he had the authority to do anything he wanted, with any character at all, in the mid-1980s, and all the other editors could do was to just grin and bear it and let him go right ahead and publish whatever he felt like writing, no matter how strongly they felt it was a bad idea!

    Actually, there were all sorts of editorial discussions going on as he wrote the scripts for Crisis, with various changes being made to his initial plans -- and killing Barry Allen (for instance) was something which Higher Authority ordered Wolfman to do; not something he tricked them into letting him get away with!

    But apparently it was easier for fans to just make Marv the scapegoat and say: "That never would have happened if Wolfman hadn't pulled a fast one on the other guys at DC!"

  6. #36

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    I was working in a comic store at that time. I remember most fans liking Bryne's Superman except the fact he screwed up the Legion w/o Clark being Superboy.

    And yeah the internet would have blown up w/ Crisis & the changes post-Crisis.

  7. #37
    Fantastic Member llozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorendiac View Post
    This sort of reminds me of how Marv Wolfman has occasionally complained that, post-COIE, fans who were angry about any given character death in that 12-part series (such as Kara Zor-El or Barry Allen) often tended to loudly blame Marv -- and nobody else -- for that particular item. As if he had the authority to do anything he wanted, with any character at all, in the mid-1980s, and all the other editors could do was to just grin and bear it and let him go right ahead and publish whatever he felt like writing, no matter how strongly they felt it was a bad idea!

    Actually, there were all sorts of editorial discussions going on as he wrote the scripts for Crisis, with various changes being made to his initial plans -- and killing Barry Allen (for instance) was something which Higher Authority ordered Wolfman to do; not something he tricked them into letting him get away with!

    But apparently it was easier for fans to just make Marv the scapegoat and say: "That never would have happened if Wolfman hadn't pulled a fast one on the other guys at DC!"

    Also don't forget that DC's owners (back then Warner Communications, & now Time Warner) never hesitated to dictate what DC could & could not do with their characters. I don't see DC having done any of those reboots (especially COIE) without its owners' consent. it's a lot more likely that it was orders from Warner bros/Warner Communications/Time Warner, that caused DC to do any of those reboots.
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