GRAYSON #12 Preview/Discussion

[AlexanderLuthor]

Isn't Luka a trad boys name? I wonder where they're going with that?

"My name is Luka, I live on the 2nd floor". Yes, traditionally a boys name taken from the Latin name Lucas

[AlexanderLuthor]

A lot of that really comes from Lobdell's incompetent handling of those characters, though. In cases like that, it's more efficient to just move forward and re-establish characterizations when the situation calls for it, rather than go back to and try to fix everything.

I was going to say the same. When Lobdell handles characters you are probably better off just ignoring it. And King, with his bubbles, really opens up the idea that it all happened even on a 5 year timeline

[joybeans]

I was going to say the same. When Lobdell handles characters you are probably better off just ignoring it. And King, with his bubbles, really opens up the idea that it all happened even on a 5 year timeline

I think the story about Barbara and the trapeze at the pier (a reference to BoP #8) shows that many of those events happened in some fashion, just in broad strokes.

[The World]

Aside from the spy stuff at the beginning and end I didn't care for this very much. For a series that has been very good at avoiding the common genre cliches of both cape comics and spy flicks it played a ton of them straight this issue. People wonder why I'm glad we didn't get the Tynion Funeral Issue and this is why because it's empty melodrama we've seen play out time and time again. Also Dick felt out of character with all the apologizing and shit.

[Vinsanity]

A lot of that really comes from Lobdell's incompetent handling of those characters, though. In cases like that, it's more efficient to just move forward and re-establish characterizations when the situation calls for it, rather than go back to and try to fix everything.

Disagree. Lobdell did a decent job with Jason. Actually better than decent.

I think Dick had to rush it to make sure he can get his plan going. If he took his time with all the melodrama, the mission is kind of lost in the shadows.

[The World]

Also after that punch I hope Dick kicks Jason in the teeth.

[OWL45]

What a great issue. Please give King/Seeley Detective after Tomasi completes what I expect to be a mediocre and forgettable run. I think the black bubbles are perfect - flashbacks would have required pages upon pages that probably stretch this to 3 issues. Also, I think they give longtime readers some smiles, while continuing the journey of Dick really being his own man in another world - they are just echos from the past

I agree with the echoes of the past and also liked how they show the characters have changed. Especially how Dick's thinking and approach has changed since being in Spyral. The way he went about getting a leg up on Agent Zero is very different than how he thought and operated as Nightwing. He was depicted as being a more linear thinker. I just think King did a good job at showing he is developing or has the mind for the spy games.

[ayanestar]

Aside from the spy stuff at the beginning and end I didn't care for this very much. For a series that has been very good at avoiding the common genre cliches of both cape comics it played a ton of them straight this issue. People wonder why I'm glad we didn't get the Tynion Funeral Issue and this is why because it's empty melodrama we've seen play out time and time again. Also Dick felt out of character with all the apologizing and shit.

Jason's reaction was the only thing that bothered me because he has no right to be angry or to punch him, it's not like they ever used to be close or something and especially not in this reboot but someone had to play the angry role and I guess Jason fits it the best besides that there wasn't a lot which you could call "empty melodrama". I also don't get how Dick apologizing and feeling bad for lying to his family is out of character. I wouldn't go so far to call it a mediocre issue like a few users here, it was a good issue, not very good or perfect but good. I would give it a 8/10. It was a smooth issue, nothing too serious but a chance to end the whole "death" plot. I actually think this issue shows very well how much Dick has improved as spy.

[OWL45]

Out of character? Given how broken up about it he has been the past 11 issues.

[OWL45]

I see what your saying about Jason punching him but Jason has always mentally put Dick on a pedestal even if he wouldn't admit it. So it probably pissed him off because it's something Bruce would do to them. I understand how they have always had a kind of friction but a lot of that comes from Jason having felt inadequate compared to Dick in Batman's eyes.

[Dzetoun]

I guess I would come somewhere between Badou and Joybeans on this one. I thought the issue had some strengths and weaknesses, but the weaknesses were largely the result of King and Seeley struggling with the messes other people have handed them. Yes, the resolution of the death plot was rushed and some of the interactions weren't effective or convincing, but that comes from DC spectacularly bungling the storyline and from the mishandling of the characters in other books. Given the steaming pile they had to work with there they did better than anybody had any right to expect. Similarly the general oddness that is Bruce and Alfred these days isn't any of their doing.

On the other hand, the bubbles are a useful and effective technique for quickly deepening Dick's history and thickening the texture of his relationships. Along with that we are getting a steady stream of visual messages telling us the five-year timeline is effectively a dead letter. They were very effective at moving the story along and integrating the Bat Family into Dick's mission at Spyral, so much so it underlines how pointless the whole death plot really was.

I did find the last sequence a little confusing. Why exactly did Damian capture the Hood? Is SpottedDick37 the Hood's password or Dick's? I followed from there, I think, as Jason and Tim broke into the Spyral facility and relayed the command codes for the Hypnos to Barbara at Checkmate.

[joybeans]

I did find the last sequence a little confusing. Why exactly did Damian capture the Hood? Is SpottedDick37 the Hood's password or Dick's? I followed from there, I think, as Jason and Tim broke into the Spyral facility and relayed the command codes for the Hypnos to Barbara at Checkmate.

I believe it was Hood's password. They captured and interrogated Hood in order to get access to Spyral's computers. The "spotted dick" was just a pun based off the British desert. It's a bit of a convenient plot shortcut, but it does show how efficient the Batfamily can be when they're united under one goal.

[HellHere]

Spotted Dick is the Hood's pw, so it's a) a dick joke but b) a joke about brits and our strangely named desserts but c) it's also a reference to the book itself (fitting because this issue is just a huge refernce to FE).

[dropkickjake]

I thought this issue was solid. I don't think it cracks my top five Grayson issues, but it is certainly good. Most of the reunions fairly on point.

Bruce talking about joy in the night was beautiful, and shows that (despite what plot-induced-selfish-Alfred thinks) he can only be "happy" as Batman.

Jason's felt entirely in character. He was the Robin who died. Even with Damian dying for a while (all of what, a year) I think its safe to say that Jason still carries this distinction, and his death messed him up a fair bit. Its something that I think he would take lightly, and Dick faking it would seem to cheapen what he went through. Plus, he's a bit more violent. His reaction made perfect sense. Tim... well, at this point Tim is just a shape on a page to me. So his reaction was eh, but it could really only be eh. (For the record, I loved the Red Robin solo. I like Tim, I've just found him to be incredibly bland in the reboot.)

Babs' reunion sort of fell flat for me, honestly. I'm not sure what I was expecting, but that scene just felt bland. Given their history, I would have expected more, at least Babs embracing him before doing the whole "Yeah. Sure. Fine. Whatever."

Damian's was obviously gold. That was absolutely perfect. That was full on older brother/fun uncle mode, and Dick's face when Damian hugged him almost made me cry. Janin. is. killing. it.

I enjoyed the use of the black bubble. They created the sense that Dick was being flooded with memories as he saw everyone again for the first time, and they had a huge payoff in the final panel. Super curious to see what Dick does with his newfound control of the hypnos. Also, I was REALLY hoping at one point in the issue that he wouldn't have to deal with them any more. I think I've decided that I hate the freaking hypnos.

Also, Jason's sweater hoodie is so awful.

This is especialy exacerbated by how damn near perfect his previous costume was. "If it ain't broke," and such.

On the other hand, as I said in another thread. Of all the bat family members Tim would probably be most suited to act as Dick's Q / Support, which would be a fun way to kind of rebuild that relationship.

And admittedly I'm just desperate to get Tim into a decent book.

Never thought of this, but that would be pretty fun. I think Tim would actually be better served as a supporting character in Dick's book than as the lead role in teen titans. And that is pretty sad.

[Godlike13]

Aww, they skipped over the Al reunion. Still, lovely issue. Really liked the return of the clue masters code, kind of wish they didn't have the other characters give it away, but nevertheless cool. Thought Babs would be angrier, but im so glad that they didn't leave Damain out. Not sure that i see Damian as a hugger, honestly thought there would be more reluctant elation with Damian, where he's clearly happy but doesn't want to show it, but it was still cute in it own way. And then there's Agent 0 . When does the next issue come out?....