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  1. #7846
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaron View Post
    I am glad to hear that England is so open. Thank you for answering my questions.
    It was quite different under Thatcher, but they have come a long way.

    What was Section 28? The history of the homophobic legislation 30 years on
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

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  2. #7847
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaron View Post
    I am glad to hear that England is so open. Thank you for answering my questions.
    My pleasure. And yes we're very lucky in the UK, we're very, very privileged when it comes to gay rights (and many today don't realise how lucky they are in the UK). It's not perfect, by any means, but no-where is; still I'd rather be gay here than anywhere else).

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    It was quite different under Thatcher, but they have come a long way.
    30 years ago everywhere was a bad place to be gay. And many countries TODAY have that same legislation, including members of the EU. So... I'd rather have had it 30 years ago, when (at the time) it was still in a country vastly ahead of the curve when it came to treating LGBT+ people. We only have gay marriage in 28 countries TODAY. Yet 71 it's illegal to be gay. I think when discussing these things, it's important to remind ourselves of the context of the world. One of the biggest struggles I had voting to Remain in the EU was knowing how several members had their own "section 28" in place.

    South Africa (I believe) was the first place to have gay marriage, and that wasn't until mid 2000s. The time frame of section 28, and the state of gay rights in the world is not so cut-and-dry when people bring it up.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  3. #7848
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    The other EU states had some anti LGBTQ laws on the books going back to the 19th century, but they didn't pass NEW ones in the 80s. That was all Thatcherism.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  4. #7849
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    The other EU states had some anti LGBTQ laws on the books going back to the 19th century, but they didn't pass NEW ones in the 80s. That was all Thatcherism.


    Just on the issue of gay marriage alone (the easiest one to look up)...

    BULGARIA
    -1991 brought it legislation saying marriage is between a man and woman specifically

    CROATIA
    - constitutional ban of gay marriage in 2013

    HUNGARY
    - constitutional ban against gay marriage in 2012

    LATVIA
    - constitutional ban of gay marriage in 2006

    LITHUANIA
    - constitutional ban of gay marriage in 1992

    POLAND
    - constitutional ban of gay marriage in 1997

    SLOVAKIA
    - constitutional ban of gay marriage in 2014

    So I see your 80s, and raise you 2014
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  5. #7850
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post


    Just on the issue of gay marriage alone (the easiest one to look up)...

    BULGARIA
    -1991 brought it legislation saying marriage is between a man and woman specifically

    CROATIA
    - constitutional ban of gay marriage in 2013

    HUNGARY
    - constitutional ban against gay marriage in 2012

    LATVIA
    - constitutional ban of gay marriage in 2006

    LITHUANIA
    - constitutional ban of gay marriage in 1992

    POLAND
    - constitutional ban of gay marriage in 1997

    SLOVAKIA
    - constitutional ban of gay marriage in 2014

    So I see your 80s, and raise you 2014
    Um... none of those are laws passed in the 80s.
    Most of those countries weren't in the EU in the 80s. From the 60s to the 90s, all then EU countries like Germany, France and the Netherlands decriminalized homosexuality and did not pass any anti LGBTQ legislation. Only the UK did under Thatcher, as far as I can find.

    Letting in the Eastern European countries brought in more Thatcher-like homophobia in the 21st century. But that is a completely different subject. You're deflecting to defend your hero Thatcher, which i find a bit treasonous to the queer community.

    In other words:

    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  6. #7851
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Um... none of those are laws passed in the 80s.
    You're right, they were passed much more recently. Seems odd to still hark on stuff from the 80s, but turn a blind eye to the stuff from 6 years ago.

    ALSO, FUN FACT...
    Lithuania passed a law very similar to "section 28" in 2009 (that's 20 years AFTER section 28), banning the promotion of homosexuality. I'm just confused why section 28 offends you so much, but these much more current laws of discrimination from Hungary, from Croatia, from Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia... don't seem to raise your eyebrow. Not even a little? Not even a wee little smidgen?

    To give context section 28 was repealed in Scotland in 2000 and in England and Wales in 2003.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Most of those countries weren't in the EU in the 80s. From the 60s to the 90s, all then EU countries like Germany, France and the Netherlands decriminalized homosexuality and did not pass any anti LGBTQ legislation. Only the UK did under Thatcher, as far as I can find.
    I'm still confused how you care what happened in the 80s, but not bothered what's happened more recently, while they were members of the EU???

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    You're deflecting to defend your hero Thatcher,
    ??? Margaret Thatcher is not my hero. LOL! Try again.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    which i find a bit treasonous to the queer community.
    I am not now, nor will I ever be part of a group under the the banner of a slur. You can't betray what you're not part of
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 02-16-2020 at 10:15 AM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  7. #7852
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Are you for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post

    I am not now, nor will I ever be part of a group under the the banner of a slur.
    Then you cannot call yourself gay, too.

    The word may have started to acquire associations of immorality as early as the 14th century, but had certainly acquired them by the 17th.[2] By the late 17th century, it had acquired the specific meaning of "addicted to pleasures and dissipations",[11] an extension of its primary meaning of "carefree" implying "uninhibited by moral constraints". A gay woman was a prostitute, a gay man a womanizer, and a gay house a brothel.[2] An example is a letter read to a London court in 1885 during the prosecution of brothel madam and procuress Mary Jeffries that had been written by a girl while slaved to a French brothel:

    "I write to tell you it is a gay house...Some captains came in the other night, and the mistress wanted us to sleep with them."

    The use of gay to mean "homosexual" was often an extension of its application to prostitution: a gay boy was a young man or boy serving male clients.[13]

    Similarly, a gay cat was a young male apprenticed to an older hobo, commonly exchanging sex and other services for protection and tutelage.[2] The application to homosexuality was also an extension of the word's sexualized connotation of "carefree and uninhibited", which implied a willingness to disregard conventional or respectable sexual mores. Such usage, documented as early as the 1920s, was likely present before the 20th century,[2] although it was initially more commonly used to imply heterosexually unconstrained lifestyles, as in the once-common phrase "gay Lothario",[14] or in the title of the book and film The Gay Falcon (1941), which concerns a womanizing detective whose first name is "Gay". Similarly, Fred Gilbert and G. H. MacDermott's music hall song of the 1880s, "Charlie Dilke Upset the Milk" – "Master Dilke upset the milk, when taking it home to Chelsea; the papers say that Charlie's gay, rather a wilful wag!" – referred to Sir Charles Dilke's alleged heterosexual impropriety.[15] Giving testimony in court in 1889, the prostitute John Saul stated: "I occasionally do odd-jobs for different gay people."[16]

    Seems like you are stuck with homosexual then.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

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  8. #7853
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    Queer is a slur! Gay people are normal and just like everybody else except for the one little difference! Look past my sexuality and see me for who I am! Peace, love, and harmony!

    - boring middle-class centrist queer

  9. #7854
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Actually, yes I can. (I'm SHOCKED I have to explain this in an LGBT+ thread to LGBT+ people)

    Here's how labels work:
    - how I choose to identity is none of your business
    - how I choose to be labelled, is not up for debate

    I'm actually shocked I had to explain this... the fact you seek to lecture and judge anyone, when you don't follow some of the basic standards of practice in the LGBT+ community by respecting how someone labels themselves is 50% laughable/50% disgusting. Would you judge someone who keeps calling a trans woman "he"? Would you defend a polyamorous person who others are saying "you're not polyamorus, you're bisexual." Would you step in if people were mocking someone who identifies as gender fluid?

    And yet... the very moment you are required to be the person respecting labels... here we are.



    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Queer is a slur! Gay people are normal and just like everybody else except for the one little difference! Look past my sexuality and see me for who I am! Peace, love, and harmony!

    - boring middle-class centrist queer
    Thank you for respecting how I want to be referred too. Speaks real highly of you as a person, and as an LGBT+ supporter.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 02-16-2020 at 02:23 PM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  10. #7855
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    I've now bombed through all the Studio Ghibli movies available on Netflix (plus Castle of Cagliosto (1979)). And Ocean Waves (1993) once again gave me gay romance blue-balls in my animation. So I really want to watch an anime show that's:
    a) on Netflix
    b) openly about a gay male, or at the very least super super "they're clearly gay, but it's all "will they won't they/we can't say, but ship this hard, because it's a thing" thing.

    Any suggestions? I have no idea about this stuff, I literally only know 5 anime shows (Cowboy BeBop, Evangelion, El-Hazard, Noir and Hellsing); but love them all.

    P.S. and yes, I know I don't count Studio Ghibli as anime, but my account added a whole bunch of "because you liked Studio Ghibli, why not these)
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 02-19-2020 at 02:02 PM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  11. #7856
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I've now bombed through all the Studio Ghibli movies available on Netflix (plus Castle of Cagliosto (1979)). And Ocean Waves (1993) once again gave me gay romance blue-balls in my animation. So I really want to watch an anime show that's:
    a) on Netflix
    b) openly about a gay male, or at the very least super super "they're clearly gay, but it's all "will they won't they/we can't say, but ship this hard, because it's a thing" thing.

    Any suggestions? I have no idea about this stuff, I literally only know 5 anime shows (Cowboy BeBop, Evangelion, El-Hazard, Noir and Hellsing); but love them all.

    P.S. and yes, I know I don't count Studio Ghibli as anime, but my account added a whole bunch of "because you liked Studio Ghibli, why not these)
    Here is one my friend raves about. I dont know if it is on netflix but maybe another streaming service offers it.

    Antique Bakery

    Antique Bakery is a comedy about four men who run a bakery. Yusuke Ono, the pātissier, is openly gay. Chikage Kobayakawa, a waiter, has a crush on Ono. Keisuke Tachibana is the owner of Antique Bakery, and is the only man who Ono finds attractive but who is not attracted to Ono in return.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

    Pull List - Lois Lane, Amazing Mary Jane, Black Cat, Doctor Doom, Gwen Stacy, Jane Foster Valkyrie, Morbius Savage Avengers, Strike Force, Something Is Killing The Children

    My name change was approved. Old name. Tbaron

  12. #7857
    Astonishing Member Silvermoth's Avatar
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    I bloody love studio ghibli. I’ve even been to the ghibli museum in Japan! My fave is Ponyo.

    About Netflix, have you seen gods own country? I loved that movie. I’ve been putting it off for ages because I thought it was grim but it was actually really nice and Josh O’Connor is a bit of a spunk

  13. #7858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvermoth View Post
    About Netflix, have you seen gods own country? I loved that movie. I’ve been putting it off for ages because I thought it was grim but it was actually really nice and Josh O’Connor is a bit of a spunk
    I liked it, but I thought Johnny’s strained relationship with his father was more interesting than the love story. The scene where he bathes his dad was touching.

  14. #7859
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaron View Post
    Here is one my friend raves about. I dont know if it is on netflix but maybe another streaming service offers it.
    Antique Bakery
    Antique Bakery is a comedy about four men who run a bakery. Yusuke Ono, the pātissier, is openly gay. Chikage Kobayakawa, a waiter, has a crush on Ono. Keisuke Tachibana is the owner of Antique Bakery, and is the only man who Ono finds attractive but who is not attracted to Ono in return.
    Ohhhhhhhh! Thank-you thank-you. It's sadly not on Netflix, and the YouTube version... ohhhh, it's such bad quality (video wise, it has a constant lens flare). Did you ever try and watch Drag Race All Stars 2 on YouTube? And it would be in that weird box, and the sound was off... it's like that. I don't suppose you know of a legal site I can watch it on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvermoth View Post
    I bloody love studio ghibli. I’ve even been to the ghibli museum in Japan! My fave is Ponyo.
    Studio Ghibli makes my heart jump. They are stunning. EVEN THE WORST ONE (Ocean Waves) is still better than 85% of all animated films out there. As a collection it's majestic, and loveable. We need more whimsy in the world. And I'm here for it.
    Can you do a "Top 5"? EEEEK! I don't know. It's tough. I know my favourite is Spirited Away (2001) (it's my tenth favourite film of all time). I love Ponyo too, and Castle in the Sky, and Howl's Moving Castle. And Nausicaa, and Monoke... ahhhh... too many good ones. Hmmmm... I'll have a think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvermoth View Post
    About Netflix, have you seen gods own country? I loved that movie. I’ve been putting it off for ages because I thought it was grim but it was actually really nice and Josh O’Connor is a bit of a spunk
    I haven't, it's on my list (literally on my watch list). Might tonight; as I can't find Antique Bakery on-line.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 02-20-2020 at 05:42 PM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  15. #7860
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Ohhhhhhhh! Thank-you thank-you. It's sadly not on Netflix, and the YouTube version... ohhhh, it's such bad quality (video wise, it has a constant lens flare). Did you ever try and watch Drag Race All Stars 2 on YouTube? And it would be in that weird box, and the sound was off... it's like that. I don't suppose you know of a legal site I can watch it on?
    Sadly I dont. But I will ask my friend how he watches it. I dont watch much Anime myself.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

    Pull List - Lois Lane, Amazing Mary Jane, Black Cat, Doctor Doom, Gwen Stacy, Jane Foster Valkyrie, Morbius Savage Avengers, Strike Force, Something Is Killing The Children

    My name change was approved. Old name. Tbaron

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