The LGBTQIA-community

[America / Bucky / Russia]

Another board I visit, an Image board, has just posted some images of a new Glee cast member, who is being billed as a 'post modern gay.'

When asking what that was, this was the answer given:

Re: the questioning of what a post-modern gay us...

The modern gay was the new generation of gays who were able to stand on the foundation built by the stonewall Era. They were the ones who could be out and proud, camp and sparkly, pretty much be whatever kind of gay they wanted, finally a little more free from hiding who they were than previous generations.

The post-modern gay is what comes after. The kind of gay who lives with the liberation and freedom of previous generations, without the pressure of having to 'represent' the gay community. They're the kind who don't have to hide their sexually, but don't shout about it either. They're guys who happen to be gay, but it's not their defining characteristic.

Does such a definition really need to be made, and equally, doesn't it suggest that now everyone should be post modern and being a sparkly camp gay is both outdated and wrong?

Well, it's good to see Glee has more than two LGBT characters. It's actually pretty disheartening when a show's only gay characters are in a relationship with each other. Now I could be completely wrong and Glee might be full of trans, ace, lesbian, bi, whatever kids.

It's very important to show there is more than one type of gay character. We are doomed if every gay character is of the Graham Norton or Gok Wan personality, or are of the camp theatre type (i.e. Glee). Kudos to them for introducing a new gay character. The fact we have come quite far even in 10 or 15 years is something to celebrate, and to have a 'liberated' gay is better than the 'depressed and suicidal with HIV' gay, although both affect gay and straight people everywhere. Which would actually be a good premise for a storyline: the depressed straight kid finds a friend in the depressed gay kid, or vice versa; the latter has been covered by Rent. Wiccan and Hulkling are probably good examples of the 'post-modern' gay. We only ever had one page or two about 'Wiccan discovering his sexuality' over in Young Avengers Special #1; there are no homophobic supervillains attacking them, only a light-hearted teasing jab from Tommy. We've only ever seen the two in a relationship, now happily living in an apartment together with very nice, supportive parents (except when possessed in Gillen's run), and whilst they go out and fight, they don't do so by holding protests. Anole on the other hand, with his backstory of homophobia, the storyline in Avengers Academy about his sexual identity and the suicide storyline that was thankfully scrapped, goes more into the position of a traditional gay portrayal.

Personally, I'm very lucky in that I had **** throughout high school, but in sixth form I get literally no homophobic bullying at all. But as I said, I'm lucky. The 'liberated' gay is a utopian ideal: something television wants to show viewers "look how awesome gay people are, they're even having same-sex marriages and no-one gives a ****!" Unless it's balanced against a character who goes through homophobia - even if just a passing comment from another character - then it is a false version of reality. Plus, have we ever really seen a black gay character? Or a trans gay character? I mean, Lord help us if a character is in two minorities.

There are some bits of being gay in the 21st century we've never really seen on screen. Like - "I met this adorable guy online and we've gone on a date and he's totally not a paedophille." I'm sure some parents would be outraged at the suggestion you can meet a 'stranger' and it be entirely safe, but it still creates a false impression.

It's okay to have sparkly gays and "out and proud" and social justice gays - as minorities amongst lots of different gay character types. Like, I don't feel the need for my defining characteristic to be "I'm gay", but at the same time I will go to Gay Pride (more to score guys and hang out with people than anything else), and I will go on internet messageboards to discuss and deconstruct gay people in TV and films and comics and whatever else. And I want to write books and make films with lots and lots of different gay protagonists.

But Glee still needs to have the odd scene where they talk about what an ******* Putin is. To divorce those attitudes from a gay character is great, because it promotes a message of normalisation. Just don't have that as the sole representative character.

Hey A/B/R I was just randomly clicking through threads and saw this link and wanted to thank you for posting it. It was incredibly uplifting to read something so heartfelt and really put a smile on my face. When you say it's got a lot of traction, I hope that's true. Stuff this kind and yeah beautiful should definitely be shared.

Thank you, you just put a smile on my face.

The post has a Huffington Post article about it and about 4000 comments on the original post itself. I'd say that's a lot of traction, especially for one pastor's personal blog.

I've been volunteering in HIV prevention (and briefly doing it as my actual job) for 10 years now, and both safer sex knowledge and infection rates for MSMs have been virtually unchanged in that period of time. The main difference is that with pre-exposition preventative drugs and "treatment as prevention", there are now non-condom safer sex methods.

What really needs to be done is we improve HIV education in the classroom. It shouldn't be a matter of "name the STD", "wear a condom" and "don't get drunk" and "well, we're done." It needs to be part of a wider discussion about consent. You cannot stop people from drunkenly making out or hooking up with someone, because peer pressure and societal norms are a little looser than that. There needs to be information on how being tested works, how the disease itself works, and how STDs like HIV can arise from non-penetrative contact.

Cool, didn't know about them. Were they only in issue #6? Or have they joined as supporting cast?

I quite like the fact Deconnick didn't dwell on the fact they were a couple, just was like "hey look they're a couple this is a sweet romantic moment now back to Carol".

---

In the U.S., trans people can't serve for their country. In Russia, trans people can't even drive over to the local supermarket.

[America / Bucky / Russia]

Found this book in Waterstones the other day.

The Art of Being Normal by Lisa Williamson
art.jpg

Two boys. Two secrets. David Piper has always been an outsider. His parents think he's gay. The school bully thinks he's a freak. Only his two best friends know the real truth - David wants to be a girl. On the first day at his new school Leo Denton has one goal - to be invisible. Attracting the attention of the most beautiful girl in year 11 is definitely not part of that plan. When Leo stands up for David in a fight, an unlikely friendship forms. But things are about to get messy. Because at Eden Park School secrets have a funny habit of not staying secret for long ...

Think I'll be adding this to the "read sometime in the future" list!

[Greg]

fox's new show, Empire, features a gay black character. He's the son of the main characters and thus far is pretty well written.

[legion_quest]

Didn't Glee have a black trans character at one point?

[PretenderNX01]

Didn't Glee have a black trans character at one point?

They did. Like a lot of the show it wasn't without controversy as it was a cisgender male playing a character who comes out as a transwoman and wants to be able to use the girls room but they give her a separate bathroom as a compromise. "Separate but equal" being ok now apparently?

Mind you if it angers Fox News, it can't be all bad.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4324861.html
It's good people are at least trying for some more diversity.

Wiccan and Hulkling are probably good examples of the 'post-modern' gay. We only ever had one page or two about 'Wiccan discovering his sexuality' over in Young Avengers Special #1; there are no homophobic supervillains attacking them, only a light-hearted teasing jab from Tommy. We've only ever seen the two in a relationship, now happily living in an apartment together with very nice, supportive parents (except when possessed in Gillen's run), and whilst they go out and fight, they don't do so by holding protests.

I think part of that is a product of not wanting to be preachy. A lot of gay people do just go about their lives, not that they're trying to be post-modern (the description of the new Glee character is pretty cheesy) just that some people have other things to get done in a day/week/year. I don't think Marvel has to many homophobic villains, or racist ones, although Kate did tell him Asgardian might not work for a name when the public finds out about him and Hulkling.
I think at Marvel the only groups you can hate are mutants.

I personally am grateful to finally see one happy young gay couple in comics. We get tons of straight couples but for some reason every gay character has to be shaded with doubt and loneliness like we can't be happy.

[the4thpip]

Fascinating (and upsetting) story about Caroline Cossey, a transgender (background) Bond Girl, and how the tabloids and UK law tried to destroy her life:

http://www.007museum.com/tula.htm

[PretenderNX01]

Fascinating (and upsetting) story about Caroline Cossey, a transgender (background) Bond Girl, and how the tabloids and UK law tried to destroy her life:

http://www.007museum.com/tula.htm

I didn't know anyone had gone after her like that. I had heard of her once as Snopes had an article about whether a Bong Girl was formerly a Bond Boy.
http://www.snopes . com/movies/films/bondgirl.asp
They noted there was an extra who was trans but that didn't count as a Bond Girl to them.

Some more info
http://www.pqmonthly.com/caroline-co...answoman/19232

Also she's actually intersex, XXXY but was assigned male sex at birth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Cossey

Two stories about major retailers and the LGBT
Tiffany and Co are featuring a male-male couple in their ads
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...ref=gay-voices

Meanwhile Saks is claiming they have the right to discriminate against trans employees (they're not fighting the lawsuit claiming it didn't happen, the claim it's their right)
http://www.businessweek.com/articles...ormer-employee

Saks’s attorney also uses the word “[sic]” (a term generally used to indicate that a quote includes some kind of error) when referring to Jamal’s gender, writing that Jamal claimed she was mistreated “because of ‘her [sic] gender’” at work. While Saks, according to the Human Rights Campaign, reports having a nondiscrimination policy that includes gender identity protection, Saks’s brief states “it is well-settled that policies in an employee handbook do not create a contract.”

Asked whether Saks indeed maintains that transgender people are not protected under the Civil Rights Act, and whether it has any issue with its attorney using “[sic]” to refer to Jamal’s gender, Saks Senior Vice President Kathleen Ruiz e-mailed that the company did not comment on pending litigation, but “we feel it is important to state that it is Saks Fifth Avenue’s position that we did not discriminate in anyway, [sic] and the allegations are not supported by the facts known to Saks.” Ruiz added that the company “maintains a long history of policies and practices that are fully supportive of the LGBT community and our LGBT associates.” (That matches Ruiz’s comment on the issue to BuzzFeed’s Chris Geidner.) Saks’s attorney told Businessweek he was “not allowed” to discuss the case, and referred inquiries to the company.

[Kieran_Frost]

Openly gay actor Matt Boomer won the Golden Globe for the Normal Heart last night

[Charmed]

I feel like the 'post-modern' gay is basically (more so in real life) the gay of today. I'm gay, but it's not exactly my defining characteristic. As a person (in my case, sort of), we have many things that define us -- make up a part of who we are. But I would never tell another person in a conversation that I'm a post-modern gay guy. It almost reminds me of the 'new black' in that regard. If everyone who isn't the new black is the old black, then are the non post-modern gays the pre-modern gays?

I guess it's one of those things that's better for fiction.

[Cayman]

Openly gay actor Matt Boomer won the Golden Globe for the Normal Heart last night

Is there an award for being beautiful, because he'd win that too.

[legion_quest]

Is there an award for being beautiful, because he'd win that too.

He so would.

[America / Bucky / Russia]

I feel like the 'post-modern' gay is basically (more so in real life) the gay of today. I'm gay, but it's not exactly my defining characteristic. As a person (in my case, sort of), we have many things that define us -- make up a part of who we are. But I would never tell another person in a conversation that I'm a post-modern gay guy.

I would just because it would make a very interesting discussion over terminology and the present gay situation.

I still think it's important to recognise gay defines a lot of one's identity. Like, yeah, there are other things, but the gay outweighs them. There are plently of people going around categorising people into 'the gay friend', because that is a significant part of that identity and our culture just loves to categorise things. Personally, I just feel like when I spend half (well, not half, but you get my point) my time on here discussing gay politics, reading over PinkNews articles and choosing to do my Media coursework on the subject of gay representation, then I can't just ignore it and say "I am free from the injustices of the past."

If everyone who isn't the new black is the old black, then are the non post-modern gays the pre-modern gays?

Charmed, you're wrong there. It's obviously orange which is the new black.

Modernism: guys who are works of art in their beauty

[bert]

Well, it's good to see Glee has more than two LGBT characters. It's actually pretty disheartening when a show's only gay characters are in a relationship with each other. Now I could be completely wrong and Glee might be full of trans, ace, lesbian, bi, whatever kids.

I hadn't watched the show in several years, but I did watch the premier, and the "discussion" between Kurt and the new character (the post modern gay) was NOTE perfect.

"Glee" actually addressed several issues I had with the show and why I stopped watching, and I thought the premier was phenomenal -- even if they DID trot out "Let it Go" again, and will be watching the final season.

as to your comment I quoted above, there have frequently been more than "two" gay characters on "Glee". . tho, yes, a lot of the focus was on Kurt and Blaine.

but you forgot:

Santana - Lesbian
Brittany - Bisexual
Unique -- intially Cisgender, but shown to have a crush on a boy, so I'd count her as Transgender
Karofsky -- Gay (Football bully, and Kurt's old nemesis and currently dating Blaine, in an idiotic twist since Kurt/Blaine broke up between least season and now)
The Warblers -- (Competing Show Choir team from an all boy's school, it's heavily implied that many of them are gay, and several of them - such as Sebastian - flat out hit on Kurt)

in addition, it should be pointed out that several of the actors (including those playing NON-LGBT characters such as Coach Beiste, Sue Sylvester, and Sunshine), are Lesbian (Dot Marie Jones/Jane Lynch), or Trans (Charice).

(in addition to gay actors playing gay roles, and straight actors playing gay roles)

[PretenderNX01]

I still think it's important to recognise gay defines a lot of one's identity. Like, yeah, there are other things, but the gay outweighs them. There are plently of people going around categorising people into 'the gay friend', because that is a significant part of that identity and our culture just loves to categorise things. Personally, I just feel like when I spend half (well, not half, but you get my point) my time on here discussing gay politics, reading over PinkNews articles and choosing to do my Media coursework on the subject of gay representation, then I can't just ignore it and say "I am free from the injustices of the past."

Well it informs a lot of your identity but I guess I don't spend that much time being gay? This is like one thread on here compared with how many Gotham threads I'm in so I'd argue being a nerd defines me more. LOL

I will acknowledge that for people with a problem with it, my sexuality may define me in their eyes. It's a part of me and I like it but I don't see it as my defining trait.

[America / Bucky / Russia]

Karofsky -- Gay (Football bully, and Kurt's old nemesis and currently dating Blaine, in an idiotic twist since Kurt/Blaine broke up between least season and now)

Maybe it's more realistic that the teenage relationship doesn't last ... but no. That's terrible from a narrative point of view. "They hated each other... now they love each other!" Ew.