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  1. #7876
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Well firstly, to be clear, I did give both sides of the arguement, and was very much not 100% in the camp of "they should always come out, always, everytime."
    I didnt see that. I am sorry. I went back and reread that. I understand now.
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  2. #7877
    Mighty Member Enigma's Avatar
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    I am very much of the opinion of that nobody has an obligation to come out, but I would really hope that we (as both a nation and the LGBT community) encourage an atmosphere in which people feel that coming out is something that they can do. Again though, entirely their choice. The role models discussion is a bit more complicated I think. I don't think that it is incumbent on people in positions of power or public scrutiny to be LGBT role models, but there is an expectation that they act as positive role models just in general. Which to some extent provides a positive LGBT role model in the process, who others can look up to. Some people of course do expect famous LGBT people (and I guess the same applies to many groups) to act as role models and I wonder if perhaps that puts some people off the idea of coming out.

    Now, I am certainly not famous or in a position of power, but speaking more locally... I work a lot around mental health issues in my area and I recently had somebody tell me that I am obligated to do more as a trans activist (I am trans), and that it is my responsibility to put myself out there. People like that annoy the hell out of me. I am not a trans activist in the first place, I am a low key mental health activist who just happens to be trans. My being trans does not belong to anybody. If a young trans person were to look at me and think that I'm doing well in life (debatable haha) and that makes them feel inspired or more confident about their future, than that's fantastic and a great bonus, but I'm not putting myself out there as a trans role model, nor do I intend to. I'm not in a place in my life in which I feel suitable for or comfortable in that role, and other people just don't get a say in it.

    It's an interesting discussion Kieran.
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  3. #7878
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaron View Post
    I didnt see that. I am sorry. I went back and reread that. I understand now.
    No worries. Coming out is (understandable) a very sensitive issue, and it causes strong emotions. Nothing to apologise for, you're all good.



    Quote Originally Posted by Enigma View Post
    I am very much of the opinion of that nobody has an obligation to come out, but I would really hope that we (as both a nation and the LGBT community) encourage an atmosphere in which people feel that coming out is something that they can do. Again though, entirely their choice. The role models discussion is a bit more complicated I think. I don't think that it is incumbent on people in positions of power or public scrutiny to be LGBT role models, but there is an expectation that they act as positive role models just in general. Which to some extent provides a positive LGBT role model in the process, who others can look up to. Some people of course do expect famous LGBT people (and I guess the same applies to many groups) to act as role models and I wonder if perhaps that puts some people off the idea of coming out.
    This is a very eloquent response, and yes, actually this is how I feel. That no-one should have to BUT if we all make a great effort to support and celebrate when people do, it makes it a little easier and a little easier; to the point where people feel encouraged to come out. Like ripples in a pond...

    Quote Originally Posted by Enigma View Post
    Now, I am certainly not famous or in a position of power, but speaking more locally... I work a lot around mental health issues in my area and I recently had somebody tell me that I am obligated to do more as a trans activist (I am trans), and that it is my responsibility to put myself out there. People like that annoy the hell out of me. I am not a trans activist in the first place, I am a low key mental health activist who just happens to be trans. My being trans does not belong to anybody. If a young trans person were to look at me and think that I'm doing well in life (debatable haha) and that makes them feel inspired or more confident about their future, than that's fantastic and a great bonus, but I'm not putting myself out there as a trans role model, nor do I intend to. I'm not in a place in my life in which I feel suitable for or comfortable in that role, and other people just don't get a say in it.
    100% true. And a very fair arguement. And you're right, it's not your job, nor should it be seen as such. For me personally (and something str8 people don't get) is we have to come out CONSTANTLY. It's not a memo everyone gets. Every new job, every new person you meet, there comes a moment where you have to "come out". I have always told myself I won't hide it, IF it comes up at work. A small act of just coming out/not denying your sexuality at work can help others (and obviously when you gossip at work, romantic interests ALWAYS come up). I know when I was touring Italy, if people in the Q&A asked if I was gay (or, more often than not, asked if I had a girlfriend) I always made a point of saying I was gay and married. Because I knew there would be many kids in that audience who that would have helped. Even if it got me in trouble with the theatre company (as they had asked me to not mention it; but not THAT much trouble, they can't fire me for answering a Q&A question honestly).

    As a side note, may we know your pronouns (if you are comfortable saying, totally fine if not).

    Quote Originally Posted by Enigma View Post
    It's an interesting discussion Kieran.
    Aaaaawwwwww, thank-you
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 03-01-2020 at 01:06 PM.
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  4. #7879
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaron View Post
    I dont really agree with you that celebrities should come out or have an obligation to give hope and pride to others. Some people are not comfortable with their sexuality and coming out is very hard for some people. It was hard for me even though I had very supportive parents who knew I was gay and told me several times it was okay before I came out. And I dont have the pressure of being in the public spotlight or having my life on camera all the time. If someone famous is gay and wants to come out and be a role model that is great. But if they are gay and want to keep that private that is okay as well. No one, famous or not is under an obligation to be a role model or flag bearer for anyone else.
    I totally agree. While it is great when high profile successful people in their fields come out and show you can be popular and talented and be out. They shouldn't be OBLIGATED, or shamed into coming out. No matter how much money a person makes, how many followers on social media, or endorsement deals they have. They are still people. With insecurities, worries, about what their families, friends, fans might think. People are allowed to deal with that on their own terms. The only caveat I would have with that is if they are closeted and participating in some way of anti LGBT politics or endorsing them for their careers.

    That has happened before like Aaron Schock for example. He has an anti gay voting record and used his position of power in the past to attack us. Then hes seen kissing dudes with his hands down their pants at festivals. THAT type of situation is where I say its perfectly fine to drag a hypocrite out of the closet and shame them not for being gay but being a self hating gay that negatively tries to impact the whole community.

    A recent example Connor Jessup article in Attitude. He talks about why he choose to publicly come out now. Them being together wasn't a secret it was pretty well known on social media etc. He talks about the reasoning for not saying anything "dissolving" and just less and less excuses personally for him not to. It highlights even thought these people are "famous" they still have to work on their own stuff, relationships before they are comfortable.

  5. #7880
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    How "Famous..." is "Famous..." in this hypothetical?

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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    How "Famous..." is "Famous..." in this hypothetical?
    I think if you are a top tier sports star in any of the major leagues, a movie star, musician, politician, social media influencer its all relevant to the discussion. Because of the stigma, or potential to inspire others behind them in similar fields or with similar dreams.

    The question of "must you" come out as some form of obligation if you are one of these top "famous people".

    in major sports for example there have been a few that came out while they were actively playing in their respective fields. But, even now its few compared to the percentage of the population who are gay. Which means there are clearly gay people that are closeted still for their own reasons and actively playing sports.

  7. #7882
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    I think if you are a top tier sports star in any of the major leagues, a movie star, musician, politician, social media influencer its all relevant to the discussion. Because of the stigma, or potential to inspire others behind them in similar fields or with similar dreams.

    The question of "must you" come out as some form of obligation if you are one of these top "famous people".

    in major sports for example there have been a few that came out while they were actively playing in their respective fields. But, even now its few compared to the percentage of the population who are gay. Which means there are clearly gay people that are closeted still for their own reasons and actively playing sports.
    See, that's kind of where my mind went.

    Bob Mould back in the "Husker Du"-days. How does he fit into that bigger picture? Just "Famous..." enough or no?

  8. #7883
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    How "Famous..." is "Famous..." in this hypothetical?
    To the point where you're doing well enough in that field that you have made over a million from work in that field. Anyone can live VERY comfortably off a million for the rest of their life; and have their own place, free of anyone and everyone who'd reject them if they come out. Being self-sufficient/self-sustainable. There is a massive amount of homeless LGBT+ youth, and it's because they come out and are kicked out. Take away that danger of losing a roof over your head because you control the roof, and how free would others be?

    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    I think if you are a top tier sports star in any of the major leagues, a movie star, musician, politician, social media influencer its all relevant to the discussion. Because of the stigma, or potential to inspire others behind them in similar fields or with similar dreams.

    The question of "must you" come out as some form of obligation if you are one of these top "famous people".
    Agreed. Basically yes, this!

    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    in major sports for example there have been a few that came out while they were actively playing in their respective fields. But, even now its few compared to the percentage of the population who are gay. Which means there are clearly gay people that are closeted still for their own reasons and actively playing sports.
    AND IT'S WORTH NOTING nearly all the sports stars who come out do so AFTER they are no longer in the sport, or no-longer at the peak (as it's something you can measure in sport, unlike, say music or acting). Oddly diving is one of the few examples where people come out at the peak (Tom Daley and Matthew Mitcham spring to mind). I seem to recall something about how no premiership league footballer has come out (in the UK) while in the league. But that may have changed? I think baseball has never had someone openly gay while in the... thingy... league (main league? I know I was in "Take Me Out" but I've forgotten all the terminology).

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    See, that's kind of where my mind went.

    Bob Mould back in the "Husker Du"-days. How does he fit into that bigger picture? Just "Famous..." enough or no?
    Well I've never heard of them, but I think we can assume I don't know music that's not Mel C, Linkin Park, Clannad, Bon Jovi, Nina Simone, a Bond song or a lipsync in Drag Race. Or mega huge where you can't avoid them, I've obviously heard of Beyonce.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  9. #7884
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    To the point where you're doing well enough in that field that you have made over a million from work in that field. Anyone can live VERY comfortably off a million for the rest of their life; and have their own place, free of anyone and everyone who'd reject them if they come out. Being self-sufficient/self-sustainable. There is a massive amount of homeless LGBT+ youth, and it's because they come out and are kicked out. Take away that danger of losing a roof over your head because you control the roof, and how free would others be?
    I dislike there being a "monetary requirement" connected to it. While I get the point that having a certain amount of money shields you from the effects of "coming out" that a normal teen in say conservative Midwest town would have. Not having to worry about being homeless, or being able to afford to not care if your religious family disowns you. They are still at the end of the day they are people like I said before. There is a reason rich people get plastic surgery or expensive spa treatments and makeup etc. They have the same hangups and body image issues anyone else has. The difference is they have the means to physically do something about it.

    This is the same thing I think people get lost with when they say Celebs shouldn't have political opinions. They forget that they are people, citizens of the country just like anyone else. Just because they are famous and have outsize "voices" in a lot of cases due to their fame shouldn't preclude them from speaking their minds.

  10. #7885
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    I dislike there being a "monetary requirement" connected to it. While I get the point that having a certain amount of money shields you from the effects of "coming out" that a normal teen in say conservative Midwest town would have. Not having to worry about being homeless, or being able to afford to not care if your religious family disowns you.
    If not monetary, where would you suggest a good position to place this marker of "you don't have to, it's a personal choice, but if we can creating an encouraging environment, it would be helpful if you did."

    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    They are still at the end of the day they are people like I said before. There is a reason rich people get plastic surgery or expensive spa treatments and makeup etc. They have the same hangups and body image issues anyone else has. The difference is they have the means to physically do something about it.
    I understand your point BUT as you listed above, they might not be free of the mental or emotional issues involved in coming out (people are people), and each person is effected by this in a different way (in ways money cannot buy solutions too)... but a lot of consequence from coming out, they are cushioned from. To put it another way: coming out and going home to your mansion knowing if it all goes horribly wrong you'll still live, breath and eat until the end of days, is still a less daunting prospect than a kid coming out to his parents, when he has not a dollar to his name.

    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    This is the same thing I think people get lost with when they say Celebs shouldn't have political opinions. They forget that they are people, citizens of the country just like anyone else. Just because they are famous and have outsize "voices" in a lot of cases due to their fame shouldn't preclude them from speaking their minds.
    I'm not a huge fan of celebrities talking politics, mainly because while they are a citizen who yes have a right to an opinion, they mostly have limited knowledge or experience, but people listen to them like they are politics experts. They are definitely part of the issue (in my opinion) in the rise of nastiness on-line. They hate political figures so quickly, it teaches others "hate is good." That and, personally, as a performer, I don't want to be able to not entertain anyone, who might (incorrectly) think because of any political views I have they are not welcome there. I'm an entertainer first and foremost, that's what I'm paid to do.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

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    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Sadly Pete Buttigieg has dropped out of the presidential race. The most successful openly gay candidate in primary history. First openly gay person to win a state in the primary too. A noble effort. Maybe one day America will be ready for an openly gay leader? Hell, maybe the UK will be, one day. Till then... you did good, Pete. You did good.

    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 03-02-2020 at 05:03 PM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

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    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    My initial thoughts on the queens of season 12 of Drag Race, after one episode to see how right I am... (might look real foolish in 4 weeks times). It's such a strong season, SO STRONG. I will say if any of them get far, I wouldn't be surprised. NO ONE struck me as a filler queen... well... maybe one. But certainly a talented filler queen (who again... could still surprise us).
    spoilers:
    Now normally you cannot possibly know who's going to do well after one episode (minus who wins the first episode). BUT... this wasn't an ordinary opening. 5 different looks. Rapping. Dancing. Team work. It was so, so much. This gave us a VERY good example of who these queens are.

    FUN FACT: of the 11 other season, the first episode was won by (in order) Nina Flowers, Morgan McMichaels, Raja, Sharon Needles, Roxxy Andrews, Ben dela Creme/Bianca del Rio, Violet Chachki, Kim Chi, Nina Bonina Brown, Mayhem Miller, Brook Lynn Heights. So as you can see:
    - 4 of the 11 went on to win the season (not the best stat)
    - 8 of the 11 made it to the Top 3 (a better stat)
    - ONLY Mayhem Miller and Morgan McMichaels didn't make it to the final 6 (great stat)
    So chances of Widow Von'Du making it far are very, very high.

    (won't last long) Crystal Methyd. Hit or miss. I'm still undecided. She's outside the box, but something feels... not THAT outside. Top 5? I don't think so. Winner? No.
    (midway) Nicky Doll. They had 5 looks, and I only liked 2. For a look queen she really isn't selling it. Her rap was good, dance okay. Top 5? Probably not. Winner? No.
    (midway) Heidi N Closet. Her personality was adorable; and I liked some of her looks a lot. She's adorable. I just don't think shes going to win. I don't see that killer instinct. Miss Congeniality? Possibly.
    (midway/Top 5) Jackie Cox. A comedy queen that's hokey and ol' school has never won. But they often get far, and surprise us. And she can turn a look. Top 5? Probably. Winner? No.
    (midway/Top 5) Brita. LOVED her personality, I didn't love her looks; in fact I thought she was the weakest of the seven in looks. And was disappointed in her performance. Could still surprise us. Top 5, maybe. Winner? Unlikely (but there was that presence that made me think she still could)
    (Top 3) Widow Von'Du. A big gurl, who can turn looks, EMBRACE her shape, dance, make me laugh. She's a strong contendor. Top 5? Definitely. Winner? Possibly.
    (Winner) Gigi Goode. My favourite so far. Her looks were sooooooo good. Look queen of the season. Her rap was great, her lipsync VERY unique and bold. Of these seven I think she's the strongest contender due to her variety of skills. Top 5? Definitely. Winner? Possibly. Strongest chance of these 7 so far.
    end of spoilers

    Anyone agree or disagree in these assessments. Do you think I'm sleeping on anyway?
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 03-01-2020 at 05:20 PM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

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    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    From what I've read about Glenn Burke, a baseball player in the late 1970s, everyone on the LA Dodgers at the time knew that Burke was gay. He just never came out publicly until after he retired. Same thing with George Takei; he came out to everyone involved with Star Trek long before he came out in a public forum. So I guess when it comes to celebrities, there are two stages of coming out, or maybe three. There's your family, there's the people you work with, and there's the public at large.
    Watching television is not an activity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    If not monetary, where would you suggest a good position to place this marker of "you don't have to, it's a personal choice, but if we can creating an encouraging environment, it would be helpful if you did."


    I understand your point BUT as you listed above, they might not be free of the mental or emotional issues involved in coming out (people are people), and each person is effected by this in a different way (in ways money cannot buy solutions too)... but a lot of consequence from coming out, they are cushioned from. To put it another way: coming out and going home to your mansion knowing if it all goes horribly wrong you'll still live, breath and eat until the end of days, is still a less daunting prospect than a kid coming out to his parents, when he has not a dollar to his name.


    I'm not a huge fan of celebrities talking politics, mainly because while they are a citizen who yes have a right to an opinion, they mostly have limited knowledge or experience, but people listen to them like they are politics experts. They are definitely part of the issue (in my opinion) in the rise of nastiness on-line. They hate political figures so quickly, it teaches others "hate is good." That and, personally, as a performer, I don't want to be able to not entertain anyone, who might (incorrectly) think because of any political views I have they are not welcome there. I'm an entertainer first and foremost, that's what I'm paid to do.
    We have a President now who has limited to "no knowledge" of anything. Yet people listen to him and worship him in cult like fascination. It is absolutely hypocritical for those same people to also criticize other celebrities speaking out.

    In an ideal world we would listen to the greatest learned thinkers, scientists, teachers humanity has to offer. People who have dedicated their lives to study or whatever field they excel in. But we don't.

    I saw Taylor Swifts netflix special Miss Americana a month ago she talked about this very thing. She struggled with being miss goody two shoes. She felt like she didn't deserve to speak her mind politically. She lived in fear of becoming the next "Dixie Chick" and having your career crushed for speaking out. There are scenes where her management etc begged her not to do it. Told her she could lose fans, especially coming from a country background.

    But she got popular and powerful enough in the industry, and has transitioned to pure pop now outside country. And disgusted enough personally to say fuck it and get really political. Specifically for LGBT views which is relevant to us. She didn't like the hateful rhetoric she was seeing of Marsha Blackburn running in her state. I'm not a huge fan of her but I can appreciate her wanting to speak out as a LGBT ally. And its for this reason I think celeb voices used in this way can help.

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    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    From what I've read about Glenn Burke, a baseball player in the late 1970s, everyone on the LA Dodgers at the time knew that Burke was gay. He just never came out publicly until after he retired. Same thing with George Takei; he came out to everyone involved with Star Trek long before he came out in a public forum. So I guess when it comes to celebrities, there are two stages of coming out, or maybe three. There's your family, there's the people you work with, and there's the public at large.
    Oh my goodness, I love learning about new LGBT+ trailblazers, thank-you

    GLENN BURKE
    - played for the Los Angeles Dodgers, and the first Major League Baseball player to come out (though this didn't happen publicly until 1982, three years after his career ended)
    "They can't ever say now that a gay man can't play in the majors, because I'm a gay man and I made it."
    - widely credited as INVENTING THE HIGH FIVE!!! Are you kidding me? Yas kweeeeen!
    [FROM WIKIPEDIA] In October 1977, Burke ran onto the field to congratulate his Dodgers teammate Dusty Baker after Baker hit his 30th home run; Burke raised his hand over his head and Baker slapped it. They are widely credited with inventing the high five.

    The next openly gay MLB player didn't come out until 1999, that was Bill Bean (and again he came out publicly after his career was over in 1995; the same year, sadly, Burke died from complications due to AIDS)



    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    We have a President now who has limited to "no knowledge" of anything. Yet people listen to him and worship him in cult like fascination. It is absolutely hypocritical for those same people to also criticize other celebrities speaking out.
    I don't think anyone here would disagree with you

    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    In an ideal world we would listen to the greatest learned thinkers, scientists, teachers humanity has to offer. People who have dedicated their lives to study or whatever field they excel in. But we don't.
    QUOTED. FOR. TRUTH! And kid's heroes shouldn't be pop stars and models, but innovators, pioneers, trailblazers, activists. Now those aren't mutually exclusive, necessarily. Ellen Degeneres is a trailblazer, and she sacrificed her career when she came out. But made it that much easier, down the line, for other LGBT+ celebrities and actors to come out. Sir Ian is knighted NOT for acting, but for gay rights. The why matters though. Admiring an actor or singer or model for their activism is very different than wanting to be famous and glamorous like them. I'm actually quite happy that some kids now have Greta as their idol, rather than whatever actor is in Riverdale.

    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    I saw Taylor Swifts netflix special Miss Americana a month ago she talked about this very thing. She struggled with being miss goody two shoes. She felt like she didn't deserve to speak her mind politically. She lived in fear of becoming the next "Dixie Chick" and having your career crushed for speaking out. There are scenes where her management etc begged her not to do it. Told her she could lose fans, especially coming from a country background.

    But she got popular and powerful enough in the industry, and has transitioned to pure pop now outside country. And disgusted enough personally to say fuck it and get really political. Specifically for LGBT views which is relevant to us. She didn't like the hateful rhetoric she was seeing of Marsha Blackburn running in her state. I'm not a huge fan of her but I can appreciate her wanting to speak out as a LGBT ally. And its for this reason I think celeb voices used in this way can help.
    Well to be clear, I'm not saying famous people shouldn't support causes. I don't consider talking about LGBT+ issues to be "talking about politics", because supporting LGBT+ people is supporting Democrate, Republican, Independent, white, black, latino, Asian, gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans... we are quite literally a rainbow, as diverse and varied as we are wonderful. And supporting us is not (or should I say, should not) be seen as a political statement. Merely the right thing to do.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 03-02-2020 at 03:36 AM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

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