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  1. #8086
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CellarDweller View Post
    Keep in mind, this is just my opinion, and I'm not saying that this is what should be put in place, and everyone made to follow.
    Hey, voice your thoughts on the matter. If we disagree, we disagree, but you have a right to express your feelings on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CellarDweller View Post
    It seems to me that the community is too fragmented, and we are constantly adding letters, but it always stops at "lgbt". I've seen Demi Lovato call us "The Alphabet Mafia", and I've jokingly called us "The Alphabet Crew". It also seems that the 6-stripe flag is used to cover the whole community, but somehow is also assigned to gay men specifically. We also know that each subgroup has their own flag.
    It's very fragmented, sadly. And I don't see how it will heal anytime soon. While I fully support each 'group' reclaiming their voice in the LGBT+ community through their own flag and own pride and own day... that's not how you bring a group together, but emphasising what separates you (in my opinion). But maybe we don't need to be one group anymore, maybe that will be where this evolution of ideas leads? To communities of groups, and no-longer an umbrella group of LGBT+? And if it does, it does, gotta let things take their course (steering as best we can).

    Quote Originally Posted by CellarDweller View Post
    In my mind, the 6-stripe flag would officially be assigned to the whole community, which would then be called "The Queer Community". This would do away with the ever-growing list of letters, and automatically cover all the groups whose letters get cut off (intersex, demisexual, genderqueer, asexual, pansexual). Gay men would then need to design their own flag, to go along with all the other flags. My choice would be a white flag, with the pink triangle, point down, as a way to honor those who we lost in the camps, and to persecution and hate crimes throughout time.
    Ohhhh, love that pink triangle point down on a white flag, that sounds very beautiful. In many ways gay men don't 'need' a flag the way other groups do, because of larger issues of 'privilege' (even in the LGBT+ community). When you feel comfortable using the established symbol, it normally means 'because the established norm works in your favour' (which is privilege). Ohhhh it's a minefield.

    Quote Originally Posted by CellarDweller View Post
    Also, a number of people are offended by "Queer" because of it being used as a slur against us.
    I'm one of them, alas. If that's where the LGBT+ community goes, okay. Their right to do it. But it'll never be a group I feel any connection to. That said getting everyone to agree on a universal umbrella term will never happen, there have been too many iterations for a new one to stick (based on how I think these things work). I think each to their own, and use what you personally feel comfortable using, accepting that others won't always feel included (the price we have to pay). I use LGBT+ as the umbrella term because it's the least offensive one I can find, that seems to annoy the least people. But I understand some dislike being relegated to a + (I've had to make peace with that, since I've seen just as many object to 'alphabet soup' as I have the +; but still find those the quieter of the voices compared to objection to umbrella terms such as Qu**R community and gay community).

    Quote Originally Posted by CellarDweller View Post
    To be honest, I decorate my apartment for Pride, and I had rainbow lights and a new rainbow flag in my windows, I opted to replace my 6-stripe one to get one that includes the black and brown stripes for gay people of color.
    Sounds AMAZING!!!
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 07-22-2021 at 01:35 PM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  2. #8087
    Astonishing Member CellarDweller's Avatar
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    Opinions on the LGBT+ community are as varied as the people who are in it.

    You made a valid point, accepting others won't always feel included. It reminds me of something my mother once told me when I started working in customer service. "There will be some people who you will never be able to satisfy, and at some point, you stop trying."

  3. #8088
    Mighty Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Either way, let's definitely get this thread going every day.

  4. #8089
    Fantastic Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Here in Germany, there are very few Pride events happening this year. But there was a large one in Berlin yesterday, with mask mandate.

    Speaking of masks: There is a big rift in the community here around the topic of "Kink at Pride." There is a group of (mostly younger) LGBTIAQ who think Pride should be family friendly, and they even go so far as to say that wearing sexually suggestive costumes (rubber and leather, doggy masks, assless chaps etc) is a kind of rape because they did not consent to see that kind of thing.
    The kinksters are upset and point out that Pride was never meant to be a family friendly party, but that it is a protest. And that kinksters were always on the forefront of the fight for equality, while many of the "straight acting" queers chose an invisible life within the system. They bristle at the idea of having an "r-rated ghetto" behind screens, or separate events all together.

    And then you have straight people who comment from the outside and think "kink" means having sex in public, and won't somebody please think about the children?

  5. #8090
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CellarDweller View Post
    Opinions on the LGBT+ community are as varied as the people who are in it.
    Very that!

    Quote Originally Posted by CellarDweller View Post
    You made a valid point, accepting others won't always feel included. It reminds me of something my mother once told me when I started working in customer service. "There will be some people who you will never be able to satisfy, and at some point, you stop trying."
    While I think this is very good advice, it's also ignoring the obvious: we don't HAVE TO not satisfy everyone. We could a) look for a term that works for all b) not insist on one term, so as to not alienate people, and just let everyone identify as they see fit. Seems a much nicer way.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    Here in Germany, there are very few Pride events happening this year. But there was a large one in Berlin yesterday, with mask mandate.
    It'll be back next year, I think a year off Pride events in person, and being active on-line, is just doing our bit for the community overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    Speaking of masks: There is a big rift in the community here around the topic of "Kink at Pride." There is a group of (mostly younger) LGBTIAQ who think Pride should be family friendly, and they even go so far as to say that wearing sexually suggestive costumes (rubber and leather, doggy masks, assless chaps etc) is a kind of rape because they did not consent to see that kind of thing.
    The kinksters are upset and point out that Pride was never meant to be a family friendly party, but that it is a protest. And that kinksters were always on the forefront of the fight for equality, while many of the "straight acting" queers chose an invisible life within the system. They bristle at the idea of having an "r-rated ghetto" behind screens, or separate events all together.
    a) it's not a kind of rape. At all. I know you don't think that, merely relaying opinions expressed by others. But I shake my head at anyone who thinks such stupid thoughts. They need to grow up, and get over themselves.
    b) LOVE how we went from Covid masks to kink. BWAHAHAHA! Never change LGBT+ community, ha!
    c) Pride was never meant to be family friendly. Pride is a riot. It's a middle finger to indoctrinated society who think in limited views. It's not meant to be kittens and cuddles and bubblegum.
    d) time to sound like an old man: certain members of the younger LGBT+ generation are EXHAUSTING. Let's not change things based on their yet-lived views of the world and how things should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    And then you have straight people who comment from the outside and think "kink" means having sex in public, and won't somebody please think about the children?
    Str8 people don't get to decide how Pride is run, so their opinion doesn't matter
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  6. #8091
    Mighty Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Hoping a large section of the community reads this thread.

  7. #8092
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    Hoping a large section of the community reads this thread.
    I read it most days. I dont say much because I dont watch the shows that are talked about most of the time on here. . And I dont really involve myself in gay issues that often. I have marched in a couple parades but I dont do that any more didnt really care for it. So kind of feel like I have much to say really because I dont really have a circle of LGBTQ friends or people in my life. It is a great thread with lots of insight but I never really feel I can add to it. I posted a couple times because on I was confused on some things and this thread and the responses really help me through it
    Last edited by babyblob; 07-25-2021 at 04:56 PM.
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  8. #8093
    Mighty Member TheRay's Avatar
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    This should be the place to get that presence in your life.

  9. #8094
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    This should be the place to get that presence in your life.
    You are right. I do need to make more of an effort. I guess I am pretty low key about my sexuality so I am not always comfortable about talking about it.

    I will start now Kiern mentioned a game when you make your first post. I never did answer the questions when I made my post weeks ago. So I can now

    - hottest Disney prince/princess - Prince Prince Eric
    - favourite LGBT+ comic character - Ultimate Colossus and 616 Iceman
    - favourite real life famous LGBT+ person - Harvey Fierstein
    Last edited by babyblob; 07-26-2021 at 03:02 AM.
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  10. #8095
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I read it most days. I dont say much because I dont watch the shows that are talked about most of the time on here.
    If you're talking about RuPaul's Drag Race shame on you for not watching it
    SIDE NOTE: All Stars 6 has been AMAZING! Loved Drag Race Espana, just crowned their deserved winner. And we get Drag Race Holland and Drag Race UK season 3 soon. YEY!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    And I dont really involve myself in gay issues that often. I have marched in a couple parades but I dont do that any more didnt really care for it. So kind of feel like I have much to say really because I dont really have a circle of LGBTQ friends or people in my life. It is a great thread with lots of insight but I never really feel I can add to it. I posted a couple times because on I was confused on some things and this thread and the responses really help me through it
    There's an 'opinion' right now by some in the LGBT+ community that to not be informed or not speak up is to be a 'bad gay'. Don't listen to them. I'm here to tell you, don't listen to that noise. It's great when people speak up, I love it, but first and foremost we need to protect ourselves and our own mind. This past 18 months has been so bad, I completely understand those who have 'white knighting fatigue' and just want to back away and keep their own thoughts. So don't ever feel pressured to talk about 'issues'. If all you want to do is say what person you found super hot today, do that! Not everything in life must be so serious (hence... DRAG RACE!)

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Kieran mentioned a game when you make your first post. I never did answer the questions when I made my post weeks ago. So I can now

    - hottest Disney prince/princess - Prince Eric
    - favourite LGBT+ comic character - Ultimate Colossus and 161 Iceman
    - favourite real life famous LGBT+ person - Harvey Fierstein
    Prince Eric is SO HOT! Is 161 Iceman also Ultimate? And I LOVE me some Harvey. "Can you make me look like Joan Crawford"/"Oh honey, I don't have the strength!" HA!!!
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  11. #8096
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Also, feeling SUPER HAPPY about a recent photoshoot I did, and yes, I'm gonna shamelessly post an image from it, because I feel really proud of my body progress this past 18 months. It's literally the thing keeping me sane in these crazy Covid times. Plus was super worried it would fall into 'cosplay' which I don't do for photoshoots, and was very happy it did not.
    #letmefeelmyoats

    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  12. #8097
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    If you're talking about RuPaul's Drag Race shame on you for not watching it
    SIDE NOTE: All Stars 6 has been AMAZING! Loved Drag Race Espana, just crowned their deserved winner. And we get Drag Race Holland and Drag Race UK season 3 soon. YEY!!!


    There's an 'opinion' right now by some in the LGBT+ community that to not be informed or not speak up is to be a 'bad gay'. Don't listen to them. I'm here to tell you, don't listen to that noise. It's great when people speak up, I love it, but first and foremost we need to protect ourselves and our own mind. This past 18 months has been so bad, I completely understand those who have 'white knighting fatigue' and just want to back away and keep their own thoughts. So don't ever feel pressured to talk about 'issues'. If all you want to do is say what person you found super hot today, do that! Not everything in life must be so serious (hence... DRAG RACE!)


    Prince Eric is SO HOT! Is 161 Iceman also Ultimate? And I LOVE me some Harvey. "Can you make me look like Joan Crawford"/"Oh honey, I don't have the strength!" HA!!!
    I tried watching Drag Race. it just wasnt my thing. I get why people like it but I just couldnt get into it. Some of the people on there were pretty funny. Just had some very over the top personalities.

    For me I speak out when I see something bad happening. There was a time I saw a gay man being harassed I did speak up. For me though my sexuality is a personal is a thing. I am low key kind of guy. So marching ion the two parades I did made me very uncomfortable because I am not the guy to make a huge display of any thing and that type of event was just really loud and busy. I was preussed by my LTGBQ friends to take part in them. I am gay they said. I have to wave the flag and show pride. But I dont like any really public events or anything. But that is just me. I do try my best to stay informed on the issues like the things going on in the news.

    I did have the chance to volunteer with a gay rights group in my area. The Prison reform group I volunteered for had a member that asked me to work with the group. He got very very mad when I said no. So I get what you are saying about others thinking I or someone who does not involve themselves in issues is a bad gay. Most of the people I have met (A small number) in the LGBTAQ community have gotten upset with me for not getting or more involved and did the whole im a bad gay thing. And it got worse with a couple of them when I started to date a woman the last couple of months. Claim I am ashamed of being gay a self hating gay etc.. That is not it at all. I have spoken out on here before about how hard it is for me to leave my house and go out in public and put myself out there. I cant go to the store alone because I freak out so a big protest, or loud busy parade? I just cant do it. It is really as simple as that for not getting involved. Things have gotten so bad on this front over the last year I stopped working with the reform group. So to be honest i have just taken a step back from the LGBTQ community because my experience has not been the best with them. I will say the Help I got on this thread a few weeks ago was amazing and it did help a great deal and you all have been very supportive of each other so I do not lump this group as that.

    Sorry that was a typo. I meant 616 Iceman. The main comics Iceman. He is pretty amazing Yes Prince Eric is pretty hot he was a huge crush as a kid.

    My favorite Disney Princess not crush level but over all enjoyment of the character is Merida from Brave. I loved the way she fought back against traditional roles and wanted to make her own path and have no one decide for her. And I love the red hair.
    Last edited by babyblob; 07-26-2021 at 03:36 AM.
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  13. #8098
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Also, feeling SUPER HAPPY about a recent photoshoot I did, and yes, I'm gonna shamelessly post an image from it, because I feel really proud of my body progress this past 18 months. It's literally the thing keeping me sane in these crazy Covid times. Plus was super worried it would fall into 'cosplay' which I don't do for photoshoots, and was very happy it did not.
    #letmefeelmyoats

    This is you? Let me say you look amazing
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  14. #8099
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    For me I speak out when I see something bad happening. There was a time I saw a gay man being harassed I did speak up. For me though my sexuality is a personal is a thing. I am low key kind of guy. So marching ion the two parades I did made me very uncomfortable because I am not the guy to make a huge display of any thing and that type of event was just really loud and busy. I was preussed by my LTGBQ friends to take part in them. I am gay they said. I have to wave the flag and show pride. But I dont like any really public events or anything. But that is just me. I do try my best to stay informed on the issues like the things going on in the news.

    I did have the chance to volunteer with a gay rights group in my area. The Prison reform group I volunteered for had a member that asked me to work with the group. He got very very mad when I said no. So I get what you are saying about others thinking I or someone who does not involve themselves in issues is a bad gay. Most of the people I have met (A small number) in the LGBTAQ community have gotten upset with me for not getting or more involved and did the whole im a bad gay thing. And it got worse with a couple of them when I started to date a woman the last couple of months. Claim I am ashamed of being gay a self hating gay etc.. That is not it at all. I have spoken out on here before about how hard it is for me to leave my house and go out in public and put myself out there. I cant go to the store alone because I freak out so a big protest, or loud busy parade? I just cant do it. It is really as simple as that for not getting involved. Things have gotten so bad on this front over the last year I stopped working with the reform group. So to be honest i have just taken a step back from the LGBTQ community because my experience has not been the best with them. I will say the Help I got on this thread a few weeks ago was amazing and it did help a great deal and you all have been very supportive of each other so I do not lump this group as that.
    Firstly, I'm so so sorry all that happened to you. I promise you when people 'lecture' about how you are not doing enough, ultimately it comes from their own insecurities about how they think THEY are not doing enough. Don't give those voices credence, they are being unkind and causing more damage than good. Ultimately by getting on their high horse they have DECREASED activism, which is the polar opposite of what they wanted to achieve.

    As for biphobia, or whatever you want to call it because you haven't fully decided (and you don't need to, ever) how you identify... it's such a shame we have so many speeches and conversations about letting people identify as they see fit, then quickly start telling bisexual men "well... you're really gay, actually." Again, ignore them. People who say such things know nothing of LGBT+ support and tolerance. So buck up and stay strong, my friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Sorry that was a typo. I meant 616 Iceman. The main comics Iceman. He is pretty amazing Yes Prince Eric is pretty hot he was a huge crush as a kid.
    He's so wonderful. In 616 my favourite LGBT+ heroes are: Wiccan (obvs), Iceman (check my avatar) and Daken. Big soft spot for Anole, Speed and Fantomex (and I love Loki, Storm, Gambit and Deadpool, but their sexuality towards the same sex is more referential than of depicted substance to count -- in my mind -- when listing and talking about LGBT+ heroes)

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    My favorite Disney Princess not crush level but over all enjoyment of the character is Merida from Brave. I loved the way she fought back against traditional roles and wanted to make her own path and have no one decide for her. And I love the red hair.
    Such a huge huge Disney fan. I could do a whole list:
    FILM: Beauty and the Beast
    PRINCE: Naveen
    PRINCES: Belle
    VILLAIN: Yzma
    SIDEKICK: Mistress Flora, Fauna and Merryweather

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    This is you? Let me say you look amazing
    Thank-you. I did a shirtless one recently too, which I was super happy with the results (but felt it was a little TOO vain to post, ha).
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  15. #8100
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Firstly, I'm so so sorry all that happened to you. I promise you when people 'lecture' about how you are not doing enough, ultimately it comes from their own insecurities about how they think THEY are not doing enough. Don't give those voices credence, they are being unkind and causing more damage than good. Ultimately by getting on their high horse they have DECREASED activism, which is the polar opposite of what they wanted to achieve.

    As for biphobia, or whatever you want to call it because you haven't fully decided (and you don't need to, ever) how you identify... it's such a shame we have so many speeches and conversations about letting people identify as they see fit, then quickly start telling bisexual men "well... you're really gay, actually." Again, ignore them. People who say such things know nothing of LGBT+ support and tolerance. So buck up and stay strong, my friend.


    He's so wonderful. In 616 my favourite LGBT+ heroes are: Wiccan (obvs), Iceman (check my avatar) and Daken. Big soft spot for Anole, Speed and Fantomex (and I love Loki, Storm, Gambit and Deadpool, but their sexuality towards the same sex is more referential than of depicted substance to count -- in my mind -- when listing and talking about LGBT+ heroes)


    Such a huge huge Disney fan. I could do a whole list:
    FILM: Beauty and the Beast
    PRINCE: Naveen
    PRINCES: Belle
    VILLAIN: Yzma
    SIDEKICK: Mistress Flora, Fauna and Merryweather


    Thank-you. I did a shirtless one recently too, which I was super happy with the results (but felt it was a little TOO vain to post, ha).
    Thank you for your kind words. I have always enjoyed your posts and how kind and supportive you are to everyone on here

    I am with you on Disney. I really love Disney movies and cartoons. The old live action movies from the 60's like Herbie, The Ugly Dachshund, Dr Syn the Scarecrow are some of my favorites I love the old cartoons also (Not all Dumbo and Snow White I am not a fan of) and Pixar is next level
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

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