The LGBTQIA-community

[Ebon]

I'm trying to think of LGBT characters in sci-fi... fantasy I think we see more examples. I mean even Battlestar Galactica (arguably the greatest sci-fi series) had Admiral Kane... and that was it. Doctor Who has the Sherlock Holmes/alien lesbian couple.

There's David Gerrold's Star Wolf series, which has at least a couple of gay crewmembers (in fact, this is a rewrite of a Star Trek TNG story he submitted that had a couple of gay crewmewmbers. This submission got him banned from the Star Trek franchise by the then-current showrunners)

There's Ethan of Athos, a book set in the Vorkosigan universe, where an entire planet of men exists because when the stand-alone womb was invented they discarded the idea of having women around.

The assassin in Caprica; he's married to a man.
Inara on Firefly was bisexual.
Susan Ivanova, second in command on Babylon 5, was a lesbian.

[t hedge coke]

Once you get out of TV or larger budget movies into low-budget flicks, or SF prose & comics, you end up with more variety of sexualities almost immediately, mostly a result of those having a lower profile and less money invested, I'd assume. The Invisibles, A, A', the later half of Heinlein's output, Dhalgren... the Authority, overall, were a mix of various sexual preferences and identities, from Apollo and Midnighter's you and me against the world, to Swift's bisexuality and fetishizing of youth, Angie's difficulty with accepting her post-human state and relations with other superhumans, or the Doctor (the Dutch one) and his various fetishes & porn that indulges them.

[Lt Trouble]

Yeah, it's surprising Enterprise didn't do anything more LGB inclusive since it premiered after Ellen and Will&Grace and it wasn't too boundary pushing by then. Not surprised that since they're money-making movies again the studios are wary. Studios thing only straight, white men watch movies.

I saw an interview with, uh, I forget his name, the guy that played Reed, saying that Reed was supposed to be gay but the studio nixed it at the last minute, for whatever that's worth.

[End of Time]

For the longest time I figured Harry Kim on Voyager was meant to be gay, with some sort of weird crush on Tom Paris...

[Scarlet Frost]

i feel the same way, although i have never really felt drawn to genderqueer labels either... Everything is such a commitment and i don't feel like i have the same internal need to be recognized as genderqueer/etc as others do, so i'm probably not, even if i don't really think of myself as feminine or masculine or womanly or manly or anything else.

Anyway, high fives!

muah dahlink

That was supposed to be a gif damn it

[Scarlet Frost]

QUESTION: how many of your (let's say "Top 10") favourite comic characters are LGBT?

To answer the question myself, Wiccan (2nd), Daken (8th) and Loki (9th) are the only three LGBT characters in my list (and, Loki was in BEFORE he was outed).


[/SIZE]

Hrm, Batwoman and Phyla-Vel are the only ones that come to mind right now. I had to give up comics because of more pressing matters of being an adult happened.

[Scarlet Frost]

I'm trying to think of LGBT characters in sci-fi... fantasy I think we see more examples. I mean even Battlestar Galactica (arguably the greatest sci-fi series) had Admiral Kane... and that was it. Doctor Who has the Sherlock Holmes/alien lesbian couple.

Madame Vastra is not an alien, she is a lizard lady from the dawn of time. It's the potato that's the alien.

[Kieran_Frost]

Franchises tend to be the wrong place to look for anything but the safest of safe heteronormative bets. I mean DS9's Garak and Sisko's issues with historically inaccurate holodeck programs made Next Gen look ridiculously heteronormative and naive, but even something like ye olde muppets in space, Farscape made DS9 look stifled, because there was less of a giant brand to uphold. I can't look to Trek for diversity or even a reflection of the social reality surrounding me daily, because too many eps and movies have increasingly stabilized that the future is about white straight dudes in military service and the occasional hot woman in her underwear. Maybe a pan-Asian, pan-Indian, pan-ethnic dude can get in there for a second, but really they're all the same. (And what was up with the Starfleet officer Scotty treats like a pet in the first of the new movies? Like a pet.)

I agree we shouldn't generally look for great diversity in franchises (just look at Star Wars = originals 1 woman, 1 black guy... the new ones, how times change ); BUT Star Trek wasn't like that. It was ahead of it's time, with not one but THREE minority males and a black female (and the first interracial kiss on US television). And the trend continued, compared to nearly all sci-fi; Star Trek has had a lot of great diversity in race and gender.

I don't really have an order but I like Wiccan and Hulkling, I liked Batwoman with Rucka on and went with it with JHW3 but didn't follow after that even if they did hire a gay writer I was just too worn out of nu52 and left. My not-so-gay-but-gayish list includes pre-52 Superboy/Kon-El. He hit the pages when i was a teenager and I crushed on him then, fade and all (it was the 90s and I though he looked like Ed Furlong). Also have been a Green Lantern/Hal Jordan fan since I was a kid watching Superfriends but I like all the Lanterns.

They are my favourite comic couple of all time.

Sulu could be Bi though, in one timeline he met a girl and settled down and in this one he could meet a boy.

Agreed; it would be fitting even, if the first openly LGBT cast member was the new Sulu (as a homage to George Takai).

I'm going to guess Marvel only because they can get away with using a known LGBT character but not bothering to depict their personal life onscreen. It's a cop-out but one Marvel can do before Trek. You said main cast for Trek and only LGBT hero in a Marvel movie. Heck Fox could cast a gay guy to play Northstar in Wolverine/X-Men/Alpha Flight and get our money for doing it even without really saying it (although as desperate as Fox is to wring every dollar out, they might say it unless the Singer suit scares them away from all gay people). Marvel/Hasbro has a Northstar toy out.

I'm surprised, considering how the X-films are a giant LGBT metaphor under Singer, and how he, Ian McKellan and Alan Cumming are all openly LGBT... that we haven't had Northstar in the films (or even Anole or Bling! in a cameo at the school).

Edit: There's an interesting article with opinions by actors, Gene Rodenberry and about the block maybe being Rick Berman? JJ Abrahms claims to be shocked there were no LGBT characters but still doesn't include any in ST:ID (and Whoopi is her awesome self)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_Ch...T_in_Star_Trek

Thank-you so much for this, it's fascinating. BUT enraging. The number of times they have had this pointed out, and the number of times they say it will be tackled... and yet here we are. Disappointing to say the least.

I actually forgot about Zachary -- but yeah, he actually WAS out when cast in the Trek films as Spock.
(he came out during "Heroes". . tho not a whole lot of media outlets picked up on it.

No, he came out Oct 16th 2011 in response to the death of Jamey Rodemeyer; here's a link to his own website where he came out.

http://www.zacharyquinto.com/news/2011/10/post.html

As to Spiner. . . the answer is "yes". . it's one of those Hollywood Open Secrets, similar to Jodie Foster (who just married her girlfriend a couple of weeks back)

So he isn't out then.

Jodie Foster is gay? I didn't even know, how awesome!

She came out at the Golden Globes this year. It was a very cool speech. Ellen Page came out in the past year too.

[bert]

From a story on HuffPo:

Quinto has long been an advocate for gay rights -- he performed in a 2009 staging of "The Laramie Project: 10 Years Later" and appeared at a banquet for the cause that same weekend, and put out an "It Gets Better" video the next year. That often fed into speculation over his sexuality, as did the fact that he's played a number of gay roles, and is doing so again in his latest television show, "American Horror Story."

he was basically out.

an open secret in Hollywood is out. Sorry if you don't agree with that, but regardless, it's a good thing.


(same thing with Spiner)

[Kieran_Frost]

From a story on HuffPo:
Quinto has long been an advocate for gay rights -- he performed in a 2009 staging of "The Laramie Project: 10 Years Later" and appeared at a banquet for the cause that same weekend, and put out an "It Gets Better" video the next year. That often fed into speculation over his sexuality, as did the fact that he's played a number of gay roles, and is doing so again in his latest television show, "American Horror Story."
he was basically out.
an open secret in Hollywood is out. Sorry if you don't agree with that, but regardless, it's a good thing.
(same thing with Spiner)

a) supporting gay rights doesn't make you gay or mean you are secretly closeted (so being an advocate for gay rights doesn't mean you are "out" -- is Obama "out" by that logic? )
b) he wasn't out. Fact. He came out in 2011 (that is according to Zachary Quintos himself)
c) "basically out" (as in rumours, let's be honest) isn't out. Plenty of straight celebrities have gay rumours, are they also "out"?

[Sprite]

She came out at the Golden Globes this year. It was a very cool speech. Ellen Page came out in the past year too.

I already knew about Ellen Page, and I've become such a huge fan of her. The speech she made at HRCF was so powerful and admirable to me.

QUESTION: how many of your (let's say "Top 10") favourite comic characters are LGBT?

To answer the question myself, Wiccan (2nd), Daken (8th) and Loki (9th) are the only three LGBT characters in my list (and, Loki was in BEFORE he was outed).

Among my favorite comic characters, there's Batwoman (my #1 DC character), Wiccan, Hulkling, Xavin, MAC and Loki. I've always felt that Marvel's made a better effort towards LGBT representation within the big two.

[bert]

a) supporting gay rights doesn't make you gay or mean you are secretly closeted (so being an advocate for gay rights doesn't mean you are "out" -- is Obama "out" by that logic? )
b) he wasn't out. Fact. He came out in 2011 (that is according to Zachary Quintos himself)
c) "basically out" (as in rumours, let's be honest) isn't out. Plenty of straight celebrities have gay rumours, are they also "out"?

we'll just have to agree to disagree.

anyone who was paying attention, or followed Hollywood/Pop Culture knew he was out.

(same with NPH, Jodie Foster, Lilly Tomlin, Kevin Spacey). Only one of how has "officially" come out.
Yep, even Foster, who married her girlfriend last weekend hasn't officially come out -- I think it was you who mentioned the Globes? Read her speech again, she never says "I'm an out Lesbian"

tho Raven-Symone did recently come out as Bisexual, I believe (even tho she's in a Lesbian relationship).

as I said, we'll just have to disagree, but an Open-secret is not a secret to those who pay attention.

[Kieran_Frost]

I already knew about Ellen Page, and I've become such a huge fan of her. The speech she made at HRCF was so powerful and admirable to me.

Her speech was really beautiful, agreed. We can't post videos here any more, but I encourage everyone to see it. It's honest, eloquent and from the heart.

Among my favorite comic characters, there's Batwoman (my #1 DC character), Wiccan, Hulkling, Xavin, MAC and Loki. I've always felt that Marvel's made a better effort towards LGBT representation within the big two.

MAC is so amazing (as is Wiccan, Loki and Hulkling). Have you read anything with Daken in it? He's basically like Loki but he feels no guilt.

[SpOck]

Aerie was the sweetest (minus her monologues about torture and mutilation ), Jaheira was complex (but the most rewarding) and Viconia ends with you to apart (until the 3rd). Anomen spoilers:

gets bitten and turned into a vampire

end of spoilers

Loved all of it (though Aerie's was too easy to complete, and you get no extra missions due to it.


I understand why TNG didn't (though a series once ahead of the grain should have been bolder). But I would even argue by the time of Voyager it should have happened. But yes, when Enterprise debuted, it was 2001. A missed opportunity.

The reboot was another perfect chance to be bold... *le sigh*


I can't remember, there was something about her "faking it" to get close to Kira BUT she also (I think) hit on herself???


Is Brent Spiner gay? Also, Sulu isn't gay, nor was Takei openly gay when he was cast in Star Trek (ditto for Zachary Quintos).


LOVEEEEEEEEEEEED that game. And ditto for Blaze (though I always found Alex Stone to be hot) :P

At the end of the DS9 Mirror episode, Esri hits on Rom's wife in the normal universe (whose name escapes me at the moment). Rom then said that he wanted to go home.

[Spike-X]

a) supporting gay rights doesn't make you gay or mean you are secretly closeted (so being an advocate for gay rights doesn't mean you are "out" -- is Obama "out" by that logic? )
b) he wasn't out. Fact. He came out in 2011 (that is according to Zachary Quintos himself)
c) "basically out" (as in rumours, let's be honest) isn't out. Plenty of straight celebrities have gay rumours, are they also "out"?

Serious question - does somebody in Hollywood have to hold a press conference before they're considered out?