The LGBTQIA-community

[Greg]

How many people lie to themselves and everyone else about their sexuality, in order to make themselves feel better?

I can't be the only one.

I haven't felt that way in years. Once I got over all that, I became happier.

[darima80]

okay someone added I and A to the acronym. Somebody help me out here..what does those letters stand for?

EDIT: Already answered. Although I've seen LGBTA with the A meaning Ally.

[ExcelsiorPrime]

Thanks. takes notes. I like to stay current.

5,000 G

[Winslow]

okay someone added I and A to the acronym. Somebody help me out here..what does those letters stand for?

I had to google it:

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, questioning, intersex, and asexual

[Lt Trouble]

My totally judgmental suspicion is that a lot of the more basic sexual identities claimed are because they're generally-true or true enough. I know folks who avoid claiming bisexual, based not on attraction, but which gender they're with just then.

I think that's true enough. I think plenty of bi people kind of.... "round down" to straight or "round up" to gay. When I was a teenager, I figured being mostly attracted to women meant I was really a lesbian, which I think was partly due to the common idea that bi people are equally attracted to men and women and partly because of the differing stereotypes of bi women and lesbians. But my current partner is a man, and usually it's easier to just.... not say anything to people that I've met since I started dating him and only know casually.

[Greg]

:sighs: the struggles of the bi gene.

[Sprite]

I think that's true enough. I think plenty of bi people kind of.... "round down" to straight or "round up" to gay. When I was a teenager, I figured being mostly attracted to women meant I was really a lesbian, which I think was partly due to the common idea that bi people are equally attracted to men and women and partly because of the differing stereotypes of bi women and lesbians. But my current partner is a man, and usually it's easier to just.... not say anything to people that I've met since I started dating him and only know casually.

It is really difficult to try and explain bisexuality to certain others. Most of my peers assumed that I was gay because I was quiet and was too afraid to talk much, and it was difficult enough trying to figure myself out without the "one or the other" mentality. In some months, I'd be attracted to men, and others to women, and it all became very confusing. It wasn't until I was more of an adult and had some better resources available that I that a better and more comfortable understanding of my sexuality. However, knowing about the stereotyping and exclusion that tends to happen in a lot of LGBT circles made me very nervous towards exploring any further, but I'm trying to get better with that.

[Tangent Man]

Sorry, dude. But it really doesn't hurt to share the sandbox, does it? At least it doesn't sound like a sandwich order anymore.

I don't know if I agree with you, thespian. It might not sound like a sandwich order, but you definitely made an Alphabet Soup! There's no way for this to sound gracious--and I'm not coming from a malicious place--but I don't know if the Queer community is necessarily a "Catch All" hangout for everyone with a variation from "traditional" heterosexuality. If that were the case, we'd probably encompass Adult Babies or the Furries, too.

Arvandor specified an exclusive attraction to women. I'm sorry, but I feel like there are plenty of discussion venues out there for straight people without them appropriating queer space.

I added the I for intersex, and A for Asexual.

A well-meaning, but possibly presumptuous, action. I question whether Asexual and Intersex people necessarily WANT to be lumped in with LGBT folks.

[Greg]

It is really difficult to try and explain bisexuality to certain others. Most of my peers assumed that I was gay because I was quiet and was too afraid to talk much, and it was difficult enough trying to figure myself out without the "one or the other" mentality. In some months, I'd be attracted to men, and others to women, and it all became very confusing. It wasn't until I was more of an adult and had some better resources available that I that a better and more comfortable understanding of my sexuality. However, knowing about the stereotyping and exclusion that tends to happen in a lot of LGBT circles made me very nervous towards exploring any further, but I'm trying to get better with that.

Just be yourself and don't worry about stereotypes concerning being bisexual. Let haters hate. Don't let them stop you in learning and exploring yourself, just as long as you doing it in healthy fashion.

[Max Aero]

A well-meaning, but possibly presumptuous, action. I question whether Asexual and Intersex people necessarily WANT to be lumped in with LGBT folks.

When aces choose to or not include themselves in LGBT+ it's on a personal level.
When other people include us in LGBT, it shows us people in the LGBT community are moving past Dan Savage-style vitriol and/or confusion to support ace visibility and ally-ship. It's cool.

People/ace communities outright against the inclusion are almost always forgetting the wide spectrum of asexual experiences and how they intersect with other non-heteronormative orientations, how heterosexism affects us as well. Or in some gross asexual communities - it's because they're transphobic & sexphobic/slut-shaming.

If that were the case, we'd probably encompass Adult Babies or the Furries, too.

I don't think LGBT is ever going to encompass fetishes. There are a few other terms that do that (GSM).

[galaxygnome]

I haven't felt that way in years. Once I got over all that, I became happier.

Yeah, I feel like I was doing what Arvandor mentions for the longest time... but I still don't feel healed from it. :/ better, but not over it, yanno?

--

IMO when you say "LGBTQIA" you aren't necessarily saying all of those struggles are linked together, as you are saying that that space is a safe one for everyone who identifies under that umbrella - inclusive of folks identifying as ace or intersex. committing yourself to that, I mean.

I haven't ever met anyone who identifies as intersex, but I have met a number of ace folks who feel routinely rejected from LGBT communities and would like not to be, especially as they sometimes also identify as panromantic, homoomantic, or even aromantic. i.e. even farther from heterosexual than some L/G/B/Q folks are. I know from being queer (some might interpret as bi?) that that feeling blows and I don't really want to wish it on anyone else. Our struggles are separate and not the same, but it is related to consensually appropriate non-normative sexual behavior/gender identity, and they should feel safe in LGBT spaces too, yeah?

--

there's so much grossness around bi and really most other labels. that's why i resigned myself to just "queer" and have felt so much nicer since. If someone wants to question me on what that means, we'll talk about it, but for most people's purposes it doesn't need to mean more than "not straight" - so much easier.

[Greg]

I've associated with queer myself, but use bisexual more often than not. I'll mostly use queer to categorize a number of people of "other" sexuality other than straight. If I'm asking another dude his orientation, I'll say "Are you straight or queer?" Because maybe he's bi and sees himself as bi or maybe he's gay. But I've met dudes who find queer to be too weird for them but still don't really say if they're bi or gay despite being one of the two.

[thespianphryne]

Fair enough, Tangent Man. But I disagree with your boundary on sexual otherness. Also Furry, Infantilism, etc are not sexual orientations: they are sexual paraphilias.

While you can make a pretty decent case for intersexed persons not falling into the queer category by virtue of choosing which gender to inhabit, you can make the same case for transgendered persons. Not all transgendered persons are attracted to the same gender. When you accord transgendered persons the dignity of their psychic gender, there are plenty of straight transgendered persons. And yet, there's the T in our little banner.

I can't speak for Arvandor, but in my understanding, he was *questioning* his absence of apparent sexual attraction to other people. And in my estimation sounded like he didn't know the direction his sexuality takes him.

You know there is still considerable debate amongst 'analysts and various other kinds of shrinks over the reality of asexuality. I myself tend to the opinion that there is no such thing as Asexuality, only repression or sublimation. But on the other hand, I'm only well-read, not an expert. Also it's not my reality or experience. So until I've gathered enough interaction with people who have that experience and until I know more, it doesn't hurt me in any fashion to consider that there is a thing called Asexuality.

In my estimation, Queerness encompasses all those concepts and experiences that challenge the binary social conventions of sex and gender roles. And the people, who belong the two categories I've presumed to invite to this discussion, challenge just those very conventions. There aren't so many of us; with so many rights and access to equity, equality and justice as the the rest of the world, so I'm with okay my own presumption of collective struggle in that regard.

[Tangent Man]

Fair enough, Tangent Man. But I disagree with your boundary on sexual otherness. Also Furry, Infantilism, etc are not sexual orientations: they are sexual paraphilias.

Yet, as you argued a case that Asexuality is repression, couldn't Furries or Infants claim that they're presenting issues of identity, and not merely sexual kink?

While you can make a pretty decent case for intersexed persons not falling into the queer category by virtue of choosing which gender to inhabit, you can make the same case for transgendered persons. Not all transgendered persons are attracted to the same gender. When you accord transgendered persons the dignity of their psychic gender, there are plenty of straight transgendered persons. And yet, there's the T in our little banner.

However, there's not exactly an absolute consensus that the T even belongs there. As you pointed out, Trans people can identify as straight. Some chafe at being associated with Bi or Gay. Many gay and bi people tire of sexual orientation being conflated with gender identity.

Historically, though, the two have been conflated. Phobes willfully dismiss any distinction. The hate expressed against Trans folks erupts from the same, churning, violent pit that targets Gay/Bi folks. Trans people have also stood alongside the LGBs in the fight for equality...even while their own needs were shunted aside in that struggle. For these reasons, and more, I welcome the inclusion of the "T"!

I can't speak for Arvandor, but in my understanding, he was *questioning* his absence of apparent sexual attraction to other people. And in my estimation sounded like he didn't know the direction his sexuality takes him.

Perhaps it's a matter of perception. I saw him say unequivocally that he's attracted to women. He's uncertain about where his dealings with women should go, because of past issues with women. Ergo, a thought that naturally occurred to me was "is this the right thread for you?" Again, there's an overwhelming abundance of threads where men can discuss their exclusive attractions toward women.

Is it absolutely necessary that such a conversation happen in the Queer thread?

You know there is still considerable debate amongst 'analysts and various other kinds of shrinks over the reality of asexuality. I myself tend to the opinion that there is no such thing as Asexuality, only repression or sublimation. But on the other hand, I'm only well-read, not an expert. Also it's not my reality or experience. So until I've gathered enough interaction with people who have that experience and until I know more, it doesn't hurt me in any fashion to consider that there is a thing called Asexuality.

I question whether Asexuality is actually an orientation, rather than a degree of sexual interest or expression. I think the struggles of Aces(?) are largely internal, and definitely do NOT approach anything resembling external oppression experienced by lesbian, gay, bi, and Trans people. Nobody will be fired, maimed, or murdered because they're Asexual!

In my estimation, Queerness encompasses all those concepts and experiences that challenge the binary social conventions of sex and gender roles. And the people, who belong the two categories I've presumed to invite to this discussion, challenge just those very conventions. There aren't so many of us; with so many rights and access to equity, equality and justice as the the rest of the world, so I'm with okay my own presumption of collective struggle in that regard.

Please understand, though, that while you may have the privilege of labeling threads according to your preferences, you don't speak for everyone here. The Queer community isn't a monolithic one. It might even be insulting to claim that asexual people experience the same degree of "struggle for justice" as people who've actually endured it.

[Max Aero]

Well this turned into a monument of how necessary "A" inclusion or in the very least eduction is in LGBT pretty quickly, and how important asexual visibility is.

Yet, as you argued a case that Asexuality is repression, couldn't Furries or Infants claim that they're presenting issues of identity, and not merely sexual kink?

Asexuality is far more complex than that, also that's a glaring false equivalency.

Many gay and bi people tire of sexual orientation being conflated with gender identity.

The inclusion of "T" doesn't mean it conflates with other orientations. The history of the terms LGB, and LGBT, was about building and accurately representing a community of people who share or support each other dealing with sexuality and gender identity issues.

I question whether Asexuality is actually an orientation, rather than a degree of sexual interest or expression. I think the struggles of Aces(?) are largely internal, and definitely do NOT approach anything resembling external oppression experienced by lesbian, gay, bi, and Trans people. Nobody will be fired, maimed, or murdered because they're Asexual!

This is why asexual visibility is so important. Someone who cannot accept the concept of asexuality apart from their own experiences making tenuous claims about our struggles, and using "external" struggle to determine legitimacy. Internal struggle is still struggle, especially when it's coupled with or influences mental illness... which can be physical. And I'd call 'corrective' rape external struggle. Or negativity from religious communities ("you owe your partner sex").
Further, LGBT rights and visibility isn't only or all about sex, whether A or T is included or not. I was under the impression love, relationships, social dynamics, etc. were also applied.

The Queer community isn't a monolithic one

That's right. There is plenty of transphobia, sexism, racism in the queer community and I don't believe most people tolerate it. I don't, as well as asexual ignorance/dismissal/hate.

You know there is still considerable debate amongst 'analysts and various other kinds of shrinks over the reality of asexuality.

These analysts and especially 'shrinks' treat asexual people as merely having sexual dysfunction or other mental illness that the patient does not actually have to be treated for. This is an institution that treats asexual people adverse to how they actually identify, think or behave.