The LGBTQIA-community

[Kieran_Frost]

EDIT - never mind, I've been corrected

[t hedge coke]

Was anyone in this thread using that term? I couldn't find it. You should edit your first post from "please don't" to "I hope people don't." That would make it clear its starting a discussion rather than false accusation.

GLAAD suggested Disney add characters to Star Wars that are LGBT and all the breeders ran screaming

So, "please don't" is appropriate, if aimed at that. That's clearly not a between-friends, jokey use or one meant as derogatory towards a subset who "deserve it."

[Cold Water]

Absolutely agree. And, thank you for stepping forward to say.

Thank you. Thank you for directly addressing me in reply as well. I think it's important for everyone to be aware of the words they use.

As I explained, it's something that I say with friends as part of a joke. My best friend is a straight guy, he'll call me a fag or a big gay, and I'll call him a breeder, it's just us being relaxed and cool with each other. I would never just randomly call somebody it, be they a woman or anyone else.

Get off your high horse and read what I typed, rather than what you thought I typed. I asked if it was bad, because my friends and I use it as a joke, it was other posters who then took it forward and defended it.

Imo, he's not on his high horse.
He's calling things on how he sees them, directly in this thread, and he's pointing out how horribly offensive the word "breeder" is to some.
And, honestly, it IS offensive.
As I said above, we all need to be more aware of what we are saying. Especially online.
People need to take responsibility for the words they use. And if they say something offensive, or use a word incorrectly, they should own that.

I don't think men can easily see how offensive the word "breeder" is.
We live in a patriarchal society where misogyny and sexism have the strongest grip.
These "characteristics" run so deep in our society, and they are so inherent, practically innate, that we don't even recognize how damaging they are, and how they drag people down.

I am pretty sure when/if any of you used the term "breeder" you did not go out with the intent of being hateful about women. But if someone called me a breeder, I'd have to probably bite my tongue not to snap on that person.
It is a term that devalues women. I am speaking from a female perspective, as I am not male, and I do not identify that way.

To borrow something I said to a friend yesterday:
When we make jokes about misogyny, it only serves to further perpetuate misogyny.
Same with racist jokes and jokes about sexuality.

The jokes are not funny. They're disrespectful, demeaning, and diminishing. And they're never really okay.

[legion_quest]

But it's all about context. In the context of how I talk to my friends, I can say what I want. I wouldn't just randomly call someone a breeder or anything else for that matter, nor would my friend be homophobic to anyone else, we just rip on each other because that's what friends do. No one was being hateful. Context is key.

t hedge coke specifically called me out over it, which I have taken offence to, because I find it completely irrational to a) tell me how I can and can't speak to my friends and b) because t hedge uses the word queer all the time, despite my constant comments that I cannot stand that word and find it offensive, yet I have never called anyone out personally for using it, and have always accepted the context that it was used in and the regional differences.

Why is it that we can point fingers at one person for one thing, yet completely ignore it the other way round?

[Kieran_Frost]

So, "please don't" is appropriate, if aimed at that. That's clearly not a between-friends, jokey use or one meant as derogatory towards a subset who "deserve it."

Ahhhhhh, perfect. Apologies; I stand corrected

[t hedge coke]

legion_quest, I'm not telling you how you can talk with your friends. I am saying you're still using an ugly word between you and your friend, for laughs. Apparently more than one. I don't care if they're racial epithets or ones rooted in sexuality, how you two talk amongst you is your business, but it's as open to criticism as anything.

And, you do make a point about "queer," quite often, so please don't pretend you don't.

I'm sorry if you feel you can dole out criticism to others but no one should be able to criticize you or your choices, but that's how life works. We agree, often, on a lot of things. On some things, particularly it seems, appropriate language, we disagree. And, neither one of us has been a stranger about voicing that.

[Time Like Lightning]

Here's the thing about words used, historically and/or presently, against a specific group of people: that group gets to 1) decide how/if they want to use, or not use it, both personally and within their community, and debate that within the group with members they disagree with, and 2) decide whether or not they want people not within the group to use the word.

We all have our own views, for instance, on "queer," and because we're LGBT+, we get to debate that, decide how we want to use it ourselves, and have the authority to tell cisgender and heterosexual people whether or not we think it's okay for them to use the word.

Now, to Cold Water's comments:

I am pretty sure when/if any of you used the term "breeder" you did not go out with the intent of being hateful about women. But if someone called me a breeder, I'd have to probably bite my tongue not to snap on that person.
It is a term that devalues women. I am speaking from a female perspective, as I am not male, and I do not identify that way.

To borrow something I said to a friend yesterday:
When we make jokes about misogyny, it only serves to further perpetuate misogyny.
Same with racist jokes and jokes about sexuality.

The jokes are not funny. They're disrespectful, demeaning, and diminishing. And they're never really okay.

Even if "breeder" is not intended to be specifically against women, it's still a term used by some to describe straight people, which includes straight women. Cold Water is a woman, telling us-- many of whom are not women, including myself-- not to use the term. So I can't speak for all of you, but I personally will not ever use it having heard her opinions on this.

[Cold Water]

Here's the thing about words used, historically and/or presently, against a specific group of people: that group gets to 1) decide how/if they want to use, or not use it, both personally and within their community, and debate that within the group with members they disagree with, and 2) decide whether or not they want people not within the group to use the word.

We all have our own views, for instance, on "queer," and because we're LGBT+, we get to debate that, decide how we want to use it ourselves, and have the authority to tell cisgender and heterosexual people whether or not we think it's okay for them to use the word.

Now, to Cold Water's comments:



Even if "breeder" is not intended to be specifically against women, it's still a term used by some to describe straight people, which includes straight women. Cold Water is a woman, telling us-- many of whom are not women, including myself-- not to use the term. So I can't speak for all of you, but I personally will not ever use it having heard her opinions on this.

Thank you. Thank you acknowledging my post, replying, for your consideration and respect, and for reading/listening to what I said.
I am grateful.

[Kieran_Frost]

But it's all about context. In the context of how I talk to my friends, I can say what I want. I wouldn't just randomly call someone a breeder or anything else for that matter, nor would my friend be homophobic to anyone else, we just rip on each other because that's what friends do. No one was being hateful. Context is key.

Agreed, context is key; the "in joke lingo" between friends is totally different, and judged on a different criteria than dialogue with different people or in different environments. But I think we can all agree in the context of THIS thread, both queer and breeder shouldn't be used. Agreed?

[Silvermoth]

I don't think it should be used, yes. Although I do enjoy being uppity towards straight people.

Anyway it's a shame London spy didn't win any baftas. I'm still really looking forward to that

[Malvolio]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0b49df6a8970c

If you don't know what something means, look it up in the dictionary.

[t hedge coke]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0b49df6a8970c

If you don't know what something means, look it up in the dictionary.

Which, reminds me that for all the screw ups and mess China is currently going through with gay rights and whether gay teens should be kissing in internet tv shows, it is really nice to live in a country that acknowledges transgender, transsexual, and intersex in both a more casual and more legally structured way than many. Plus, my ID gives me an easier way to "prove" intersex than answering invasive physiological questions. I can just point to the sex listed. "See? Yo."

That "keep asking what?" "then ask why" at the link cracks me up too much.

[Kieran_Frost]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0b49df6a8970c

If you don't know what something means, look it up in the dictionary.

Ugh. Hate that that term "genderqueer."

[t hedge coke]

Ugh. Hate that that term "genderqueer."

Out of curiosity, what would you rather?

[Kieran_Frost]

Out of curiosity, what would you rather?

Does it matter; anything without the word "queer" in it would suit me just fine.