The LGBTQIA-community

[legion_quest]

They're not really separate, tho.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality

Yeah, but this is everything. Society over laps.

If you start lumping everyone non straight white male together, you basically get an us vs them of perceived 'norms' vs 'anyone different' not to mention problems of dividing current communities.

The Pride flag exists to help people identify and come together for a specific reason - once you start making that reason about other reasons, you dilute the point, and the impact.

[Star_Jammer]

Very true. Black is a shade? Or hue? I know I was taught this, but I forget. Was white the absence of colour, and black the absence of light? Or something like that???

https://www.colormatters.com/color-a...d-white-colors

I have to agree with the sentiment to not include race identity into LGBT symbolism (such as the rainbow flag).



Not only do the different colors not represent specific sexualities or genders, they don't exclude any. Whereas the point of adding brown/black would be to specifically add representation to certain groups, and the lack of inclusion of *cough*thatonecolor*cough* seeks to exclude a certain group.

LGBT+ flag is already about everyone, or so I had always believed.

[nx01a]

hey firmly team Sasha here too! I was living for her unicorn! I'm cool if she doesn't win though - then we get to see more of her in All Stars 3 which I believe may be sooner than we think because the last one did so well. Yeah also voted for Valentina for Miss Congeniality but technically all queens were eligible so people could still have voted for Peppermint.

The Medieval Tapestry Unicorn was epic. And the horn was bloody! Vicious and subversive!
Something about Valentina's personality just seems so... fake, so sickeningly sweet to the point of being unbelievable. I'm just a viewer who has never met her but I wouldn't vote for her as Miss Congeniality. That honour would go to Peppermint who seems like a genuinely nice person.

My favourites remain...

[Adam Allen]

Yeah, but this is everything. Society over laps.

If you start lumping everyone non straight white male together, you basically get an us vs them of perceived 'norms' vs 'anyone different' not to mention problems of dividing current communities.

The Pride flag exists to help people identify and come together for a specific reason - once you start making that reason about other reasons, you dilute the point, and the impact.

Intersectionality is the opposite of lumping everyone together; it's acknowledging that even as we are united in one aspect of identity, the other aspects of identity (race, religion, etc) do not disappear ... and that ignoring those other aspects can be harmful to individuals, or at least create barriers to a real sense of community. I don't know, what I tend to think of most is economic class, because I think money can serve to mitigate a considerable amount of animosity that someone might otherwise experience.

Anyway, I don't think black and brown need to be added to the rainbow flag, either. Just saying I guess I can see where the motivation might come from.

[wonderlad]

Something about Valentina's personality just seems so... fake, so sickeningly sweet to the point of being unbelievable. I'm just a viewer who has never met her but I wouldn't vote for her as Miss Congeniality. That honour would go to Peppermint who seems like a genuinely nice person.

Yeah Pepper seems really a sweetheart. Perhaps they should rename the popular vote as it's become a consolation prize for a contender the public deems eliminated too early. I can see how Valentina is seen as somewhat contrived but her pep talks to Farrah and eccentricties in Untucked make her somewhat endearing. I would argue that if they giving an award for Miss Charisma she'd deserve it.

[Supernature]

QUESTION: what are people's thought on trying to add black and brown to the rainbow flag?

I "get" why the movement exists, but this isn't how to go about it, since ultimately... it's meant to be a rainbow. There are so many other, far more meaningful ways to promote and aid inclusion. It just seems like a well meaning movement, but they picked the wrong thing to look to change. Thoughts?

As a black gay, I thinks it's utterly idiotic.

We're already included in the regular flag: the same Pride flag is used all around the world, regardless of our nationality or race.

Philadelphia can keep it.

[Supernature]

As a black gay, I thinks it's utterly idiotic.

We're already included in the regular flag: the same Pride flag is used all around the world, regardless of our nationality or race.

Philadelphia can keep it.

I'm actually kind of offended, to be honest.

The flag in and of itself is raceless and each color represents something.

Representing the intersection between 'homosexual' and 'black' could have been achieved by mixing a symbol of blackness (like the shape of the African continent) with the flag. Like when jewish gay men add a star of David to the rainbow for their parade.
Adding colors to the flag as an update presumes that this flag didn't mean to represent us, or that it's inherently representative of white gay men only (Gilbert Baker must be rolling in his grave), and that we needed to add colors to represent brown gay men, which is not the case. I love that flag!

Plus the meanings are totally out of place: you have Sex, Life, Healing, Sunlight, Nature, Art & Magic, Serenity and Spirit.
And then black people and brown people? Makes no sense!

An those two colors aren't even in rainbows qlksdnwvmjnzqiùcsvmbqnvksmcvqvbnkwcvksmvns!lkvnfio vpfib!!!!

This is so s-t-u-p-i-d!
Did nobody think before they did this or was the opportunity for virtue-signalling too good to pass up?

[mojotastic]

I think is the former rather than the later supernature, i mean if you go and ask people what the colours of the flag represent i doubt people will give you a correct answer, instead the people who designed that flag didnt think about it.

[Adam Allen]

Yeah, I don't think I would assume any sort or malice or ill-will intended ... I mean, I can't really say, but it makes me think of a conversation I had with someone on the internet a while back. It was with a white gay man in Australia who was all bent out of shape because he did not like how some people were not down with his stating that he did not think any black or brown men could ever be attractive, to him ... basically, he was of the opinion that "white" features were just objectively more attractive, and that any objective standard of beauty should have to acknowledge that the further any features diverged from that -- Asian features, too -- the less attractive they were.

The thing here is that it's not as if anyone was trying to force him to get with anybody he was not interested in. If you're not attracted, you're not ... what he was upset about was that when he said that only white people could ever be attractive, some people said that was a racist opinion. He was angry with me in our conversation, because I agreed that his proclamations about beauty were in fact racist.

He blathered on about political correctness and "sjw" and all that. But, where I ended the conversation was just to say that he was free to do and think as he truly felt, and he was even free to say as he truly felt -- he just did not have some sort of entitlement to be shielded from other people's opinion of his opinion. Particularly when his opinion is that everyone who is not white is ugly.

I mean, again, I don't know that that is where the idea of adding black and brown to the flag come from, but that is what I think of. If the drive is to make clear to someone like that, that his kind of bs is not okay ... I can understand where it comes from. Again, I myself don't think adding black and brown to the flag is a good idea ... but, I imagine that sort of thing is where it comes from.

[Crazy Diamond]

I think is the former rather than the later supernature, i mean if you go and ask people what the colours of the flag represent i doubt people will give you a correct answer, instead the people who designed that flag didnt think about it.

I'll admit that I had heard for years that the colors on the flag represented different identities. It wasn't till I read up on the creator and what he intended that I found out that what I'd heard was wrong.

[jeanvaljean]

I do believe, though, that we should have a conversation on why some people feel the need to change the flag.

As a community, we're not as cohesive as I'd like us to be.

When you're on grindr, how many profiles say "no Asians" or "only straight acting" - often followed by "don't call me a racist, it's just my preference." Hollywood making Stonewall about a white, cis, straight acting guy was another symptom of that.

I've been to a Pride planning event where a cis gay man said that he understands the hesitance of local businesses to advertise at Pride because "a screaming queen can chase off other customers."

Many people feel marginalized and excluded in our community. That's probably where the need for a symbol of inclusion comes from, though I agree it's not thought through well. But if we as a community were less exclusive, the idea would never have been brought up.

[nx01a]

Symbols are great but it's those who rally around them and how those people act and what those people believe that truly matters. Adding colours to the rainbow won't automatically make certain skin tones more accepted or make the more fem gays treated as 'equals'.

On that topic and several other related ones, here's a fascinating BBC documentary series on being gay in the UK...

[Supernature]

Symbols are great but it's those who rally around them and how those people act and what those people believe that truly matters. Adding colours to the rainbow won't automatically make certain skin tones more accepted or make the more fem gays treated as 'equals'.

Exactly. If you feel like there's a problem, launch a conversation about it in the community. Have workshops. Reach out.

The flag with the black and brown stripes is an empty gesture that doesn't fix anything. As I said, mere virtue-signalling.

[BroHomo]

But isnt that a totally different issue?

Why add race to something that isnt about race?

Pride is about sexuality and sexual identity - those things transcend race, so why would you put it in the mix?

Absolutely racism needs stamping out, but adding racism to homophobia doesnt seem to be the right way to do it - it makes two very separate issues into one confusing lump of an issue

Dang, bro seriously? It always surprises me when non-minorities say thesekinds of things, as if I can switch between being gay and black. Every thing I do/experience is going to be through a gay black preppy southern middleclass etc lense. I don't even like the flag (waaaaaay too many colors to properly match an outfit) but think it's kinda cool they added the new colors

Exactly. If you feel like there's a problem, launch a conversation about it in the community. Have workshops. Reach out.

The flag with the black and brown stripes is an empty gesture that doesn't fix anything. As I said, mere virtue-signalling.

I'm sure these "workshops" and "conversations" would be devoid of Black/Brown gays. Don't agree with it being an empty gesture obviously with some of the reactions going around its an issue that needs to come up. Reminds me of the absolutely insane reactions people had to the Netflix show 'Dear White People' If they aren't front and center I feel most non-
minorities either ignore an issue or say it's divisive🙄
found this tweet from a buddy I ignored during High school that toooootally sums up my thoughts @MajorPhilebrity
Screenshot_2017-06-15-18-02-33-1.jpg

[Supernature]

Oh miss me with this BS. Boohoo, some white gay men won't have sex with you. The great great horror!

There have literally been white gay men thrown in concentration camps and brown gay men thrown off of buildings by ISIS, in this year of 2017. There are lesbians of all colors getting corrective raped as we speak. We need unity to fix our issues and the rainbow flag as it is unites us.

If you feel like ur Grindr game is more important than the overarching goals of the gay community, you are petty and immature. You have no right to police other people's sexual autonomy, and policing other people's sexuality certainly isn't more important than gay people literally dying and getting raped.

Deal with rejection like an adult. Grow up!