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  1. #8236
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    For those interested here is a clinical NDE Study -

    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f06...0765ef8926.pdf *

    Warning this is a PDF file.

    Now perhaps this is a purely biological process all I'm saying is due to the data clusters something is taking place beyond simple hallucinations. There are clear patterns involved. What is the underlying cause of those patterns is up for debate but their existence is not (they can be found throughout every study of the subject matter in similar numbers relative to sample size).
    Saying there is something happening with a clear pattern in no way discounts them being hallucinations. They aren't contradictory. Perhaps you think hallucination is derogatory, when others use it descriptively without negative connotations.
    Last edited by Kirby101; 08-18-2019 at 09:38 AM.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  2. #8237
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Saying there is something happening with a clear pattern in no way discounts them being hallucinations. They aren't contradictory. Perhaps you thing hallucination is derogatory, when others use it descriptively without negative connotations.
    Hallucinations indeed come across, to me at least, as derogatory and dismissive in this context of a genuine phenomenon. Furthermore, from the studies, I've read and researched, and that I've personally witnessed, I doubt NDEs are all in the mind. I've taken part in several studies (reports pending) and the participants have provided us with information they shouldn't know. Interestingly enough there is a correlation with so-called cases of "spirit possession". One possibility is that the people involved in both types of cases are tapping into a cosmic consciousness. If the information is genuine, which seems likely in a number of cases, it has to come from some source.

    Edit - But that's the fun, isn't it? A great mystery perhaps the ultimate mystery.
    Last edited by Celgress; 08-18-2019 at 11:09 AM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  3. #8238
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Bringing this back with links

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    The sub conscious mind is a funny thing, as there is a 'God Helmet' that stimulates the brain in a way that brings on visions similar to near death experience. They might not have told the kid directly, but if they mentioned it within the child's hearing at any point the memory could be brought up even if they can't remember it consciously. Dreams bring up experiences we forgot or have only imagined all the time after all.
    http://out-of-body-experience.info/g...be-comparison/


  4. #8239
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    The God Helmet could only be designed by Kirby.

    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  5. #8240
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    Here is something frightening to consider. Might it be possible that a person could immerse oneself in a game using this tech for so long that one loses touch with reality? In which case one would think the game world is real.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  6. #8241
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Here is something frightening to consider. Might it be possible that a person could immerse oneself in a game using this tech for so long that one loses touch with reality? In which case one would think the game world is real.
    Yes that could result in a real-life Matrix, a beyond immersive game from Ready Player One or some sort of actual virtual prison and I really don't like those possibilities. However that sort of discussion diverges even more from the topic of this thread than discussion about the potential religious ties of NDE.

  7. #8242
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    Yes that could result in a real-life Matrix, a beyond immersive game from Ready Player One or some sort of actual virtual prison and I really don't like those possibilities. However that sort of discussion diverges even more from the topic of this thread than discussion about the potential religious ties of NDE.
    Indeed it would diverge even more greatly from the subject matter of the thread. That said after watching the clip I could not help but think about movies like the Matrix and games like Undertale, Doki Doki Literature Club and Bendy & the Ink Machine (all works in which either people are trapped in a virtual world or characters from those worlds gain life of their own and menace the player). *shivers*
    Last edited by Celgress; 08-18-2019 at 01:25 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  8. #8243
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Indeed it would diverge even more greatly from the subject matter of the thread. That said after watching the clip I could not help but think about movies like the Matrix and games like Undertale, Doki Doki Literature Club and Bendy & the Ink Machine (all works in which either people are trapped in a virtual world or characters from those worlds gain life of their own and menace the player). *shivers*
    Of course that would take much more refining than the current "Blast the brain with EM and hope Visions happen" technology, including refining it to produce specific images and experiences across a multitude of different brains. Any neuroscientist will tell you that no 2 brains are alike, or respond the same in anything but the most general ways. Ex: BLANK portion of the brain will light up in both brains but the specifics of how much activity there is & exactly which neurons fire depend on how each brain develops over its growth. That's why there's such a mystery surrounding NDE's.

  9. #8244
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    Of course that would take much more refining than the current "Blast the brain with EM and hope Visions happen" technology, including refining it to produce specific images and experiences across a multitude of different brains. Any neuroscientist will tell you that no 2 brains are alike, or respond the same in anything but the most general ways. Ex: BLANK portion of the brain will light up in both brains but the specifics of how much activity there is & exactly which neurons fire depend on how each brain develops over its growth. That's why there's such a mystery surrounding NDE's.
    As I've been told by such experts during the studies I've been involved with.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  10. #8245
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    So if they ever perfect the technology to transfer your brain into a computer, providing immortality, or near it. What doe that do salvation. By then you could probably have a near perfect body to live in. Or create your own simulated environment that could be paradise. Who needs to be saved then?
    Just to pose a theological question.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  11. #8246
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    So if they ever perfect the technology to transfer your brain into a computer, providing immortality, or near it. What doe that do salvation. By then you could probably have a near perfect body to live in. Or create your own simulated environment that could be paradise. Who needs to be saved then?
    Just to pose a theological question.
    I personally don't want to live in a world where my mind can be selectively edited like a computer program without my consent.

  12. #8247
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    I personally don't want to live in a world where my mind can be selectively edited like a computer program without my consent.
    I feel the same way. There would be to much scope for abuse even if "well-meaning". I object to any outside power deciding what one can and cannot think or changing aspects of one's personality.
    Last edited by Celgress; 08-18-2019 at 04:31 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  13. #8248
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    As I've been told by such experts during the studies I've been involved with.
    If you were given 6 months to live, but were told you could be uploaded to an android body to stay alive, would you?
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  14. #8249
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    If you were given 6 months to live, but were told you could be uploaded to an android body to stay alive, would you?
    I'm ashamed to say I would probably take the android body option. I wish my faith was stronger. While I think there is an afterlife I'm worried where exactly I might end up there or what it might be like overall. What about you?
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  15. #8250
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Saying there is something happening with a clear pattern in no way discounts them being hallucinations. They aren't contradictory. Perhaps you think hallucination is derogatory, when others use it descriptively without negative connotations.
    For the record, I know you and the others don't mean anything derogatory when you say it's hallucinations. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as no one is being rude or offensive, which you guys are not being. To my knowledge, you have never offended me or have been rude to me Kirby. We may not agree on some things when it comes to Christianity, but we respect each other's opinions.
    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

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