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  1. #8686
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    Hey bat, thanks for sharing. The bible is God breathed and while it is written by men, they were guided by the Holy Spirit. The bible is God's word for us here on earth, therefore we can apply it to our lives and daily living.
    There was no concept of the "Holy Trinity" before 600 AD at the Vatican Council under Pope Gregory. It evolved as a compromise of ideas, rather than a universally understood truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    There are a lot of "good" people as you say, but it takes more than being good to be saved.
    Being good is exactly what it takes. Christ's last message to his disciples in His ministry on earth was

    "Love one another, as I have loved you."

    I have to believe this was His last message because it was crucial to our salvation. Not believing in Him as my Savior, not even believing in God. Love one another, and you shall be saved.

  2. #8687
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Who said God was fair? Certainly not me. He's a wild, untamed God who lets only the people he wants into heaven because He is God. This isn't some connect the dots life we have here where if you do it all perfectly you get to be rewarded for it. Nope, its an unfair, sorrowful life and at the end you have to get over the fact that you and everyone else are really assholes deep down.
    Who in their right mind would want to spend eternity with such a creature? Sounds more like hell than heaven

  3. #8688
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonAnders View Post
    There was no concept of the "Holy Trinity" before 600 AD at the Vatican Council under Pope Gregory. It evolved as a compromise of ideas, rather than a universally understood truth.
    God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit all existed from the beginning. It was orally passed down and then the Pentateuch was written around the 6th century BC.


    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonAnders View Post
    Being good is exactly what it takes. Christ's last message to his disciples in His ministry on earth was

    "Love one another, as I have loved you."

    I have to believe this was His last message because it was crucial to our salvation. Not believing in Him as my Savior, not even believing in God. Love one another, and you shall be saved.
    Not true. Please read:
    Mark 10:17 "No one is good except God alone"
    John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
    John 3:5 "Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God'."
    Ephesians 2:8-10 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
    Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
    John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
    Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  4. #8689
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonAnders View Post
    Who in their right mind would want to spend eternity with such a creature? Sounds more like hell than heaven
    You mean the God who love us so much that He sent His Son to shed his heavenly kingdom and divinity, be ridiculed, spit on, battered and broken, then crucified? Not for anything He did, but for what WE did and continue to do? That God? Yes, I would very, very much like to spend eternity with that God.
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  5. #8690
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    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  6. #8691
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit all existed from the beginning. It was orally passed down and then the Pentateuch was written around the 6th century BC.

    Jesus existed at 0 AD. Not before. The Holy Spirit existed from 600 AD, as a result of the first Vatican council. Holy Trinity was a bundle of compromises to explain contradictions throughout the Bible.


    Not true. Please read:
    Mark 10:17 "No one is good except God alone"
    John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
    John 3:5 "Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God'."
    Ephesians 2:8-10 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
    Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
    John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
    Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

    What is not true exactly? The 11th commandment? This one?
    John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

    If you believe Jesus is God, then you must believe this commandment is from God, is of God. It is the perfect summary of Christ's ministry and message on Earth, and a failure to acknowledge that is...let's just say sinful.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    You mean the God who love us so much that He sent His Son to shed his heavenly kingdom and divinity, be ridiculed, spit on, battered and broken, then crucified? Not for anything He did, but for what WE did and continue to do? That God? Yes, I would very, very much like to spend eternity with that God.
    No, I mean this dispicable creature:

    "Who said God was fair? Certainly not me. He's a wild, untamed God who lets only the people he wants into heaven because He is God. This isn't some connect the dots life we have here where if you do it all perfectly you get to be rewarded for it. Nope, its an unfair, sorrowful life and at the end you have to get over the fact that you and everyone else are really assholes deep down."

    I mean the a being so evil he sent plague after plague down upon the the people of Egypt, without ever touching the one individual in all of Egypt who actually had the authority to do anything about what God was upset with.

  7. #8692
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit all existed from the beginning. It was orally passed down and then the Pentateuch was written around the 6th century BC.
    The Trinity is not mentioned in the Old Testiment. And the Hebrew concept of the Messiah is not the son of God.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonAnders View Post
    What is not true exactly? The 11th commandment? This one?
    John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
    Yes, that statement is true, but this is what you said:

    Being good is exactly what it takes. Christ's last message to his disciples in His ministry on earth was

    "Love one another, as I have loved you."

    I have to believe this was His last message because it was crucial to our salvation. Not believing in Him as my Savior, not even believing in God. Love one another, and you shall be saved.


    You can't be saved merely by being "good". The scriptures are clear and the only way you can be saved is by faith in Jesus as your Lord and savior, which is a gift by God.
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  9. #8694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    The Trinity is not mentioned in the Old Testiment. And the Hebrew concept of the Messiah is not the son of God.
    The word "trinity" is not mentioned in the OT or NT. But the Holy Trinity has always existed. Genesis 1:26 says "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". Notice God doesn't say "me". God says "us" and "our", the Holy Trinity. This was explained in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  10. #8695
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    Today's devotion:

    SIGNS OF THE TIMES
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/25/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  11. #8696
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    You can't be saved merely by being "good". The scriptures are clear and the only way you can be saved is by faith in Jesus as your Lord and savior, which is a gift by God.
    Well gee whiz, sure seems like Jesus could have been a little more clear with his 11th commandment then. Something like "I leave you a new commandment: Love me and worship me as you love and worship My Father in Heaven, for only by doing so may you be saved." I mean, bit of a large gap in teaching there, ya think? Didn't exactly have clarity if that's what he meant, did he? How his message would be remembered for all time doesn't seem to have been a concern.

    The fact is, it is perfectly possible to believe in Jesus Christ as one's personal savior, and still be an evil person and be denied entrance to Heaven. That's what judgement is about. Are we good enough to deserve heaven? If it was a binary "do you believe or not" judgement would hardly be necessary, would it.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    The word "trinity" is not mentioned in the OT or NT. But the Holy Trinity has always existed. Genesis 1:26 says "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". Notice God doesn't say "me". God says "us" and "our", the Holy Trinity. This was explained in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."
    The concept of the trinity existed since Pope Gregory said it did in 600 AD, in the same set of meetings where he declared Mary Magdalene to be a prostitute. None of those passages point to the existence of a trinity, but if you're revisionist you make make yourself believe that they do.

    Which has been the problem with a great deal of faith throughout the centuries. People have a pre-conceived notion about what they believe, and then cherry pick verses out of the Bible, or whatever the holy readings are, that seem to justify what they want to believe. That's the sort of thinking that was used to justify slavery for centuries. Ultimately it was the sort of reasoning that justified the Holocaust.

    The thing about cherry picking verses is you can make anything seem to support any view if you twist it around enough. The trick is to be able to objectively ask yourself (prayerfully, if you like) one question. "Is what I think this verse means broadly consistent with the Bible's message? And particularly with the New Testament. And more particularly than that, the Gospels. And even more particularly than that, with the parts of the Gospels in red letters.

    Clearly, the focus of Christ's ministry on earth was not himself or his divinity (no one in the world thought he was divine until 600 years after his death). His focus was always how we treat one another. Yes you can find specific sentences that say other things, but they aren't the broad message that he worked to deliver to us. His ministry was completely summed up in the 11th commandment from God: "Love one another." You risk your eternal soul if you think salvation is about anything else (and you inevitably betray yourself as an unpleasant person in most of the cases I've seen. People like Mike Huckabee, or Jerry Fallwell Jr for instance).

  12. #8697
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    The word "trinity" is not mentioned in the OT or NT. But the Holy Trinity has always existed. Genesis 1:26 says "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". Notice God doesn't say "me". God says "us" and "our", the Holy Trinity. This was explained in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."
    Boy that is a stretch. I am not saying for you to not believe in the trinity. I am saying it is not in the OT. God also talks about people not having other Gods. yet i expect you to not believe there were ever other gods. You are just retro fitting something and using a modern English translation of ancient Aramaic to do it. John is not the OT, it is just more ad hoc interpretation.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  13. #8698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    The Trinity is not mentioned in the Old Testiment. And the Hebrew concept of the Messiah is not the son of God.
    Sorry Kirby, I forgot to address this point. The Hebrew concept of the Messiah wasn't necessarily that the Messiah would be the Son of God, but that is because they're understanding and concept of the Messiah was all wrong. They thought he would be a conqueror, who would defeat the nations who were evil toward them. They completely misread the scriptures. And what is sad about the whole thing is that they should have known better. And in the end, most of the the leading Pharisees and Sadducees knew Jesus was truly the Son of God, but didn't want to lose their power and standing in the community. They loved themselves more than they loved God. There were exceptions, like Nicodemus, but for the most part, they failed to acknowledge Jesus' true identity.

    There are many OT scriptures that clearly defines the Messiah's role and identity, but you probably know which scriptures I'm referring to.
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  14. #8699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Boy that is a stretch. I am not saying for you to not believe in the trinity. I am saying it is not in the OT. God also talks about people not having other Gods. yet i expect you to not believe there were ever other gods. You are just retro fitting something and using a modern English translation of ancient Aramaic to do it. John is not the OT, it is just more ad hoc interpretation.
    How is that a stretch? If there wasn't a Holy Trinity, then why would God use the plural words of "us" and "our" from Genesis? And it's not just that particular verse, there are others. I just used that verse for an example.
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  15. #8700
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonAnders View Post
    Well gee whiz, sure seems like Jesus could have been a little more clear with his 11th commandment then. Something like "I leave you a new commandment: Love me and worship me as you love and worship My Father in Heaven, for only by doing so may you be saved." I mean, bit of a large gap in teaching there, ya think? Didn't exactly have clarity if that's what he meant, did he? How his message would be remembered for all time doesn't seem to have been a concern.

    The fact is, it is perfectly possible to believe in Jesus Christ as one's personal savior, and still be an evil person and be denied entrance to Heaven. That's what judgement is about. Are we good enough to deserve heaven? If it was a binary "do you believe or not" judgement would hardly be necessary, would it.




    The concept of the trinity existed since Pope Gregory said it did in 600 AD, in the same set of meetings where he declared Mary Magdalene to be a prostitute. None of those passages point to the existence of a trinity, but if you're revisionist you make make yourself believe that they do.

    Which has been the problem with a great deal of faith throughout the centuries. People have a pre-conceived notion about what they believe, and then cherry pick verses out of the Bible, or whatever the holy readings are, that seem to justify what they want to believe. That's the sort of thinking that was used to justify slavery for centuries. Ultimately it was the sort of reasoning that justified the Holocaust.

    The thing about cherry picking verses is you can make anything seem to support any view if you twist it around enough. The trick is to be able to objectively ask yourself (prayerfully, if you like) one question. "Is what I think this verse means broadly consistent with the Bible's message? And particularly with the New Testament. And more particularly than that, the Gospels. And even more particularly than that, with the parts of the Gospels in red letters.

    Clearly, the focus of Christ's ministry on earth was not himself or his divinity (no one in the world thought he was divine until 600 years after his death). His focus was always how we treat one another. Yes you can find specific sentences that say other things, but they aren't the broad message that he worked to deliver to us. His ministry was completely summed up in the 11th commandment from God: "Love one another." You risk your eternal soul if you think salvation is about anything else (and you inevitably betray yourself as an unpleasant person in most of the cases I've seen. People like Mike Huckabee, or Jerry Fallwell Jr for instance).
    Here's what Jesus says about salvation and it is not general or in a broad sense. It is as specific as you can get:

    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

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