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  1. #7246
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    THE MIGHTY CUSH’S TRIBUTE
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/10/
    Favorite Artists Right Now: Ivan Reis, Andrea Sorrentino, Stuart Immonen, Jason Fabok, Olivier Coipel, Nick Dragotta, Kim Jacinto, Patrick Gleason, Jorge Jimenez, Greg Capullo, Jerome Opena, Steve McNiven, Jim Cheung, Steve Epting, Sean Murphy.

    "Some people live more in 20 years than others do in 80. It's not the time that matters, it's the person."--The Doctor

    The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever! --Isaiah 40:8

  2. #7247
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    I never said Satan was in the book of Isaiah. I said he was in the book of Job, which chronologically fits at the end of Genesis or right after it. Therefore, Isaiah (who was a Hebrew male who studied the scrolls) would have known about Job's life and the story involving Satan.
    I understood your point, My point is that Jewish people do not believe in "Satan the enemy of God" at all. Yes the word ha satan is in the Tanakh such as in the book of Job but, it has a completely different meaning than the Christian Satan. Isaiah even having read Job would not equate evil's meaning to include Satan, a supernatural, diabolical, fallen angel, advisory of God. The Jews just don't believe in it. Thus there is no mention directly or indirectly of "Satan" in Isaiah. In the book of Job the interaction between God and ha satan is not that of enemies. Would really doubt that Satan would just stroll up to God with the "Sons of God" and not be kicked in the pants if he were his nemesis. It is God who brings Job into the conversation and he who suggest Job be met with such disasters to prove his faith. Ha satan has just been ordered by God to do a task and carries it out following God's instruction. Even Job does not blame Satan for all his misfortunes. He says its God that brings both good and bad into his life. Here ha satan is a servant of the lord not his enemy, a tool of his "righteous evil". Ha satan is a Hebrew term used to describe something, its not a name. There is also a number of Christians that don't believe in Satan as the traditional being of the evil fallen angel.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 07-11-2018 at 02:35 PM.
    Surely not everybody was kung fu fighting

  3. #7248
    Fantastic Member Psimitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    I understood your point, My point is that Jewish people do not believe in "Satan the enemy of God" at all. Yes the word ha satan is in the Tanakh such as in the book of Job but, it has a completely different meaning than the Christian Satan. Isaiah even having read Job would not equate evil's meaning to include Satan, a supernatural, diabolical, fallen angel, advisory of God. The Jews just don't believe in it. Thus there is no mention directly or indirectly of "Satan" in Isaiah. In the book of Job the interaction between God and ha satan is not that of enemies. Would really doubt that Satan would just stroll up to God with the "Sons of God" and not be kicked in the pants if he were his nemesis. It is God who brings Job into the conversation and he who suggest Job be met with such disasters to prove his faith. Ha satan has just been ordered by God to do a task and carries it out following God's instruction. Even Job does not blame Satan for all his misfortunes. He says its God that brings both good and bad into his life. Here ha satan is a servant of the lord not his enemy, a tool of his "righteous evil". Ha satan is a Hebrew term used to describe something, its not a name. There is also a number of Christians that don't believe in Satan as the traditional being of the evil fallen angel.
    Jews also don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God nor do they believe in the Triune God. That doesn't make them right nor does it invalidate Christians beliefs.

  4. #7249
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    EGYPT MEETS GOD AGAIN
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/11/
    Favorite Artists Right Now: Ivan Reis, Andrea Sorrentino, Stuart Immonen, Jason Fabok, Olivier Coipel, Nick Dragotta, Kim Jacinto, Patrick Gleason, Jorge Jimenez, Greg Capullo, Jerome Opena, Steve McNiven, Jim Cheung, Steve Epting, Sean Murphy.

    "Some people live more in 20 years than others do in 80. It's not the time that matters, it's the person."--The Doctor

    The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever! --Isaiah 40:8

  5. #7250
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimitar View Post
    Jews also don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God nor do they believe in the Triune God. That doesn't make them right nor does it invalidate Christians beliefs.
    There are non-Trinitarian Christian denominations. They all do not believe in the same idea of original sin either. Not to mention that very earliest forms of pre-Nicean Christianity saw Jesus as most holy but not the Son of God and that those like Jehovahs Witnesses continue with those beliefs . Your statement should read more like "That doesn't make them right nor does it invalidate my Christian belief." as not all Christian beliefs are the same.

    But that is totally off the point. The point being the definition of "evil" in Isaiah 45:7. Isaiah being a Hebrew (Jew), he would not have the same belief in Satan as Christians today. So his meaning of the word "evil" (which is also argued to be misinterpreted in the KJV any way) would not include the supernatural being known as Satan.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 07-12-2018 at 01:26 PM.
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  6. #7251
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Oh, absolutely. "Evil" as used in the Old Testament often means misfortune.

    If you're injured in hailstorm, that's an evil, but not a moral one. Unless they're sentient hailstones!

  7. #7252
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Oh, absolutely. "Evil" as used in the Old Testament often means misfortune.

    If you're injured in hailstorm, that's an evil, but not a moral one. Unless they're sentient hailstones!
    I hope Stephen King doesn't see your post
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  8. #7253
    Fantastic Member Psimitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    There are non-Trinitarian Christian denominations. They all do not believe in the same idea of original sin either. Not to mention that very earliest forms of pre-Nicean Christianity saw Jesus as most holy but not the Son of God and that those like Jehovahs Witnesses continue with those beliefs . Your statement should read more like "That doesn't make them right nor does it invalidate my Christian belief." as not all Christian beliefs are the same.

    But that is totally off the point. The point being the definition of "evil" in Isaiah 45:7. Isaiah being a Hebrew (Jew), he would not have the same belief in Satan as Christians today. So his meaning of the word "evil" (which is also argued to be misinterpreted in the KJV any way) would not include the supernatural being known as Satan.
    There are indeed non-Trinitarian heresies. It took 400 years of back and forth before the church finally nailed down the nature of Jesus Christ. Either the Gnostics were attacking his humanity or the Arians (and Jehovah's Witnesses) were attacking his deity. But that is off the point as well.

    So now we're saying that the New Testament writers, most of which were Jews (with the exception of Mark and Luke) either A) completely misunderstood the Scriptures or B) contrived to re-interpret what they believed to be the holy word of God in favor views that fit the narrative they wanted to present,

    Or C) the New Testament writers weren't really the writers of the New Testament books. Then we can fall down the heretical rabbit hole of saying "well, we can't be sure who really wrote the New Testament books but we know for sure that it wasn't the writers that the books are credited to.

    Additionally, it attacks the inerrancy of Scripture and calls into question the belief of the Divine Inspiration of the Holy Spirit in the authorship of both the Old and New Testaments.
    Last edited by Psimitar; 07-12-2018 at 03:02 PM.

  9. #7254
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    You totally forgot D)That its not the inerrancy Scripture being questioned but that the widely excepted interpretation is fouled.
    Surely not everybody was kung fu fighting

  10. #7255
    A Gentle Woman Mia's Avatar
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    Yesterday in my devotions The HS led me to 2nd Kings chapter 2 vs. 11 & 12

    11 As they were walking and talking, a chariot and horses of fire appeared and separated Elijah from Elisha. Then Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. (NCV)
    The Fully Life Study Bible refers to that scene being, that Elijah was one of only 2 men who never died, and God brought them directly to heaven. It goes on to say that this was God's reward to Elijah for living solely for Him, serving Him in what was seen at the time as a very decadent and impulse driven society. Where people essentially lived according to what they felt (sound familiar?)

    The second passage that the Holy Spirit brought me to was later in the chapter verses 23-24

    23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. On the way some boys came out of the city and made fun of him. They said to him, “Go up too, you baldhead! Go up too, you baldhead!” 24 Elisha turned around, looked at them, and put a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two mother bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys to pieces. (NCV)
    Most of us who have attended Sunday school as kids have heard this story. But what the study bible showed me was that the kids are not just making fun of Elisha's appearance. "The go up!" taunt is in reference to Elijah's being taken up to heaven. Essentially they are making fun of Elisha's faith. What the HS revealed to me, is that God does not take it kindly when people try to shame and ridicule us. Especially when it comes to our faith. But we should not seek revenge or let their behaviour bother us. God will deal with them himself.
    • “The moment will arrive when you are comfortable with who you are, & when you don’t feel the need to apologize for anything or to deny anything. To be comfortable in your own skin is the beginning of strength.” ― Charles B. Handy
    • "We are not what we own or what we do for a living. We are who we choose to be, which is so much grander than any possession we can possibly acquire". - Alyssa Gross

  11. #7256
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    Yesterday in my devotions The HS led me to 2nd Kings chapter 2 vs. 11 & 12



    The Fully Life Study Bible refers to that scene being, that Elijah was one of only 2 men who never died, and God brought them directly to heaven. It goes on to say that this was God's reward to Elijah for living solely for Him, serving Him in what was seen at the time as a very decadent and impulse driven society. Where people essentially lived according to what they felt (sound familiar?)

    The second passage that the Holy Spirit brought me to was later in the chapter verses 23-24



    Most of us who have attended Sunday school as kids have heard this story. But what the study bible showed me was that the kids are not just making fun of Elisha's appearance. "The go up!" taunt is in reference to Elijah's being taken up to heaven. Essentially they are making fun of Elisha's faith. What the HS revealed to me, is that God does not take it kindly when people try to shame and ridicule us. Especially when it comes to our faith. But we should not seek revenge or let their behaviour bother us. God will deal with them himself.
    Completely agree on everything you said Mia
    Favorite Artists Right Now: Ivan Reis, Andrea Sorrentino, Stuart Immonen, Jason Fabok, Olivier Coipel, Nick Dragotta, Kim Jacinto, Patrick Gleason, Jorge Jimenez, Greg Capullo, Jerome Opena, Steve McNiven, Jim Cheung, Steve Epting, Sean Murphy.

    "Some people live more in 20 years than others do in 80. It's not the time that matters, it's the person."--The Doctor

    The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever! --Isaiah 40:8

  12. #7257
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    TUMULT IN THE VALLEY
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/12/
    Favorite Artists Right Now: Ivan Reis, Andrea Sorrentino, Stuart Immonen, Jason Fabok, Olivier Coipel, Nick Dragotta, Kim Jacinto, Patrick Gleason, Jorge Jimenez, Greg Capullo, Jerome Opena, Steve McNiven, Jim Cheung, Steve Epting, Sean Murphy.

    "Some people live more in 20 years than others do in 80. It's not the time that matters, it's the person."--The Doctor

    The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever! --Isaiah 40:8

  13. #7258
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    EARTH’S END AND GOD’S GLORY
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/13/
    Favorite Artists Right Now: Ivan Reis, Andrea Sorrentino, Stuart Immonen, Jason Fabok, Olivier Coipel, Nick Dragotta, Kim Jacinto, Patrick Gleason, Jorge Jimenez, Greg Capullo, Jerome Opena, Steve McNiven, Jim Cheung, Steve Epting, Sean Murphy.

    "Some people live more in 20 years than others do in 80. It's not the time that matters, it's the person."--The Doctor

    The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever! --Isaiah 40:8

  14. #7259
    Spectacular Member
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyY0eWHJ_IU

    Go to 24:26

    I liked the 90s X-Men cartoon. But what Justin Faull is telling is true. For those who study the Nephilim phenomenon will understand it.

    He also touched on about science. How it is a religion in a way.

  15. #7260
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    Yesterday in my devotions The HS led me to 2nd Kings chapter 2 vs. 11 & 12



    The Fully Life Study Bible refers to that scene being, that Elijah was one of only 2 men who never died, and God brought them directly to heaven. It goes on to say that this was God's reward to Elijah for living solely for Him, serving Him in what was seen at the time as a very decadent and impulse driven society. Where people essentially lived according to what they felt (sound familiar?)

    The second passage that the Holy Spirit brought me to was later in the chapter verses 23-24



    Most of us who have attended Sunday school as kids have heard this story. But what the study bible showed me was that the kids are not just making fun of Elisha's appearance. "The go up!" taunt is in reference to Elijah's being taken up to heaven. Essentially they are making fun of Elisha's faith. What the HS revealed to me, is that God does not take it kindly when people try to shame and ridicule us. Especially when it comes to our faith. But we should not seek revenge or let their behaviour bother us. God will deal with them himself.

    What a horrible story. Just for taunting, and I don't care if it was Elijah or God himself, these children are torn apart by bears? A horrid death for speaking in a way God didn't like. That is not a "loving God", that is a cruel, thin-skinned deity. If a king were to act like that, he would be remembered as an evil ruler.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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