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  1. #8101
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    And I would put forth that the Mormon doctrine is not Christianity at all. They claim that we all can end up being gods and goddesses of our own planets, etc. This is heresy and completely false Christian doctrine. It is all made up by Joseph Smith.
    Quote Originally Posted by foxley View Post
    Interesting that you get offended if others disparage Christianity, but you somehow feel you have licence to disparage other religions.
    Now it fits!
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  2. #8102
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    Now it fits!
    Are you trying to say that I am disparaging Mormonism? If so, I'm not. I stated exactly what they believe and what they believe doesn't match up with the teachings of Jesus. That's a fact.
    The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

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  3. #8103
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    WAITING FOR GOD
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue...tions/july-02/
    The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “Everything’s impossible until somebody does it.”– Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  4. #8104
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    Are you trying to say that I am disparaging Mormonism? If so, I'm not. I stated exactly what they believe and what they believe doesn't match up with the teachings of Jesus. That's a fact.
    How is calling it a heresy and 'It is all made up" not disparaging?
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  5. #8105
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    How is calling it a heresy and 'It is all made up" not disparaging?
    Anyone changing the words of Jesus' teachings are heresy. God also states in the bible that anyone who claims to be a prophet of God and any of their predictions do not come true, they are false prophets and so are their teachings. Joseph Smith's claims have been false multiple times. Therefore, he is a false prophet and so are his teachings.
    The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “Everything’s impossible until somebody does it.”– Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  6. #8106
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    Anyone changing the words of Jesus' teachings are heresy. God also states in the bible that anyone who claims to be a prophet of God and any of their predictions do not come true, they are false prophets and so are their teachings. Joseph Smith's claims have been false multiple times. Therefore, he is a false prophet and so are his teachings.
    I'm not defending Joseph Smith, Just saying that if I were to point out the contradictions and short comings of Paul you would consider it disparaging, but don't see it as such when doing it to Smith.
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  7. #8107
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    And I would put forth that the Mormon doctrine is not Christianity at all. They claim that we all can end up being gods and goddesses of our own planets, etc. This is heresy and completely false Christian doctrine.
    Considering there's no death in heaven and bodies are perfect etc, couldn't it be argued that the residents are 'gods and goddesses' in that sense? (Lower case, like the ones referred to in Genesis)

    And the 'many mansions' they will reside in are the 'planets' (depicting the vastness of the heavens)?



    (Not defending Joseph Smith, either)

  8. #8108
    Fantastic Member Psimitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    Considering there's no death in heaven and bodies are perfect etc, couldn't it be argued that the residents are 'gods and goddesses' in that sense? (Lower case, like the ones referred to in Genesis)

    And the 'many mansions' they will reside in are the 'planets' (depicting the vastness of the heavens)?



    (Not defending Joseph Smith, either)
    In order to make that argument, you would have to deny Creation as an Ex Nihilo event and embrace the continuity of being (the idea that the distinction between Creator and creature is only by degrees) that is dominant in pagan ideology. The Mormon doctrine teaches that God was once a man who became God and likewise we can all become gods and create our own universes. This flies in the face of the Creator/creature distinction. Even after the Resurrection where our bodies will be made perfect (without sin or defect), we will still be creatures and God is still the Creator, that distinction will never change.

  9. #8109
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimitar View Post
    In order to make that argument, you would have to deny Creation as an Ex Nihilo event and embrace the continuity of being (the idea that the distinction between Creator and creature is only by degrees) that is dominant in pagan ideology.
    I don't think so. It's a 'level up' process - being raised by the Creator to a new status, but still a creation and dependent (the main difference between here and the hereafter being that it won't be taken away (no death)).

    The Mormon doctrine teaches that God was once a man who became God and likewise we can all become gods and create our own universes. This flies in the face of the Creator/creature distinction.
    Yeah, can't disagree with you there.

    Although (setting aside the first bit and the 'where did that planet come from' stuff) ... if it's all by His permission then they're not equal to Him. They're greater than what we are but not equal to God.


    Even after the Resurrection where our bodies will be made perfect (without sin or defect), we will still be creatures and God is still the Creator, that distinction will never change.
    In comparison to 'now', though, we would be 'gods' along the lines of how various peoples and civilisations have taken them to be over the years, no?

  10. #8110
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    I'm not defending Joseph Smith, Just saying that if I were to point out the contradictions and short comings of Paul you would consider it disparaging, but don't see it as such when doing it to Smith.
    Nope, not at all. Although, if you're saying he contradicted himself, then you would be incorrect. If you were to say he contradicted others (like Peter), you would be correct, and Paul was right, and Peter was wrong, and admitted so later on.

    But we all have shortcomings. Paul was persecuting Christians before he became one. But even a man like that can be changed by the power and salvation of Jesus' saving grace.

    Surely though, you see the difference between Paul and Joseph Smith.
    The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “Everything’s impossible until somebody does it.”– Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  11. #8111
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    MIGHTY IS THE LORD
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue...tions/july-03/
    The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “Everything’s impossible until somebody does it.”– Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  12. #8112
    What fresh hell is this? ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimitar View Post
    In order to make that argument, you would have to deny Creation as an Ex Nihilo event and embrace the continuity of being (the idea that the distinction between Creator and creature is only by degrees) that is dominant in pagan ideology. The Mormon doctrine teaches that God was once a man who became God and likewise we can all become gods and create our own universes. This flies in the face of the Creator/creature distinction. Even after the Resurrection where our bodies will be made perfect (without sin or defect), we will still be creatures and God is still the Creator, that distinction will never change.
    I've always wondered why God simply didn't create humans without sin or defect in the first place.
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  13. #8113
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    I've always wondered why God simply didn't create humans without sin or defect in the first place.
    He was lonely and needed someone to worship him. If humans were perfect, they wouldn't need to ask him for help and forgiveness. He comes off quite needy in the OT.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  14. #8114
    Fantastic Member Psimitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    I'm not defending Joseph Smith, Just saying that if I were to point out the contradictions and short comings of Paul you would consider it disparaging, but don't see it as such when doing it to Smith.
    The thing about Paul is that he preached one Gospel (Galatians 1). Joseph Smith preaches continuing revelation and teaches that Scripture is insufficient, which is why he added to it with the Book of Mormon. This is in direct conflict with what Paul teaches regarding the sufficiency of Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16).

    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    I've always wondered why God simply didn't create humans without sin or defect in the first place.
    He did. Sin and defect came in being when Adam and Eve at the fruit. This goes into the doctrine of the imputed sin of Adam and allows for the righteousness of Christ to be imputed to us (Romans 5:12-20).

  15. #8115
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimitar View Post
    He did. Sin and defect came in being when Adam and Eve at the fruit. This goes into the doctrine of the imputed sin of Adam and allows for the righteousness of Christ to be imputed to us (Romans 5:12-20).
    Except they succumbed to temptation before eating the fruit, also God created them & the fruit knowing they'd eat it and condemn all humanity to original sin. An overall imperfect situation all around.

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