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  1. #8476
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's Devotion:

    HE BEGAN A GOOD WORK IN YOU
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/22/
    "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose"--Romans 8:28

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “Would you like a jelly baby?”--The Doctor

  2. #8477
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    So, I wanted to talk about things that are not discussed in the bible but people think about and maybe get some discussions going. One thing a friend asked me a long time ago was this question--"Why did God put us here on earth if He knew which people were going to be saved? Why not just create everyone and put them in Heaven to begin with?" I will share my response to my friend later.
    "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose"--Romans 8:28

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “Would you like a jelly baby?”--The Doctor

  3. #8478
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    The Elect are a thing in the Bible, so its a good discussion topic. The concept of the Elect is in the Bible several times and always connotes that there are people "destined" to follow God's ways and those who are "destined" not to.

    From Romans 8 (ESV): "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

    God foreknew who would be saved. He knows the heart, past and future, of every individual human. Its the same way he knows what the weather is going to be like day after day after day, when natural disasters are going to happen, who will be elected president in 2020 and exactly when each of us is going to die and what we will do with our entire lives.

    It can make one feel helpless, like life is already set and our choices mean nothing. But knowing the future is not controlling the future. God still acts to intervene in lives and that is part of his foreknowledge, for instance. We can choose, still, and those choices are a part of his foreknowledge. However he doesn't choose people ahead of time to go to heaven or hell, to follow him or not.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  4. #8479
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    So, I wanted to talk about things that are not discussed in the bible but people think about and maybe get some discussions going. One thing a friend asked me a long time ago was this question--"Why did God put us here on earth if He knew which people were going to be saved? Why not just create everyone and put them in Heaven to begin with?" I will share my response to my friend later.
    This is the rabbit hole of "free will".
    Surely not everybody was kung fu fighting

  5. #8480
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    This is the rabbit hole of "free will".
    I choose not to believe in free will.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  6. #8481
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    The Elect are a thing in the Bible, so its a good discussion topic. The concept of the Elect is in the Bible several times and always connotes that there are people "destined" to follow God's ways and those who are "destined" not to.

    From Romans 8 (ESV): "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

    God foreknew who would be saved. He knows the heart, past and future, of every individual human. Its the same way he knows what the weather is going to be like day after day after day, when natural disasters are going to happen, who will be elected president in 2020 and exactly when each of us is going to die and what we will do with our entire lives.

    It can make one feel helpless, like life is already set and our choices mean nothing. But knowing the future is not controlling the future. God still acts to intervene in lives and that is part of his foreknowledge, for instance. We can choose, still, and those choices are a part of his foreknowledge. However he doesn't choose people ahead of time to go to heaven or hell, to follow him or not.
    I think looking at the Bible through a binary saved/unsaved lens is extremely problematic. Salvation isn't an either/or proposition, it's a process by which humanity as a whole is perfected. The 'elect' aren't so much 'saved' in the sense the word is mistakenly used as 'called' to lead by example. 'Freely you have received, freely give.'

    One of humanity's hang-ups is the zero-sum game. If there's a winner, there's got to be a loser. But a key component of salvation, at least as I understand it, is to reject that kind of binary, elitist mindset altogether. Salvation is more a realization of one's true immortal state than a change, though it is necessarily perceived as such in the context of space-time. But in working toward being better every day, we are in truth becoming what we always were but somehow forgot. And we have to help others remember what they truly are, too.

    Hell is a state of mind and we all 'burn' to the extent that we resist our truest nature. "It is hard to kick against the goads."

  7. #8482
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's Devotion:

    I WILL BE CONTENT
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/24/
    "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose"--Romans 8:28

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “Would you like a jelly baby?”--The Doctor

  8. #8483
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's Devotion:

    BLOOD-BOUGHT GRACE
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/25/
    "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose"--Romans 8:28

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “Would you like a jelly baby?”--The Doctor

  9. #8484
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's Devotion:

    BE A DIFFERENCE-MAKER
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/26/
    "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose"--Romans 8:28

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “Would you like a jelly baby?”--The Doctor

  10. #8485
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's Devotion:

    GLORIFYING GOD NO MATTER WHAT
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/27/
    "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose"--Romans 8:28

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “Would you like a jelly baby?”--The Doctor

  11. #8486
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I think looking at the Bible through a binary saved/unsaved lens is extremely problematic. Salvation isn't an either/or proposition, it's a process by which humanity as a whole is perfected. The 'elect' aren't so much 'saved' in the sense the word is mistakenly used as 'called' to lead by example. 'Freely you have received, freely give.'

    One of humanity's hang-ups is the zero-sum game. If there's a winner, there's got to be a loser. But a key component of salvation, at least as I understand it, is to reject that kind of binary, elitist mindset altogether. Salvation is more a realization of one's true immortal state than a change, though it is necessarily perceived as such in the context of space-time. But in working toward being better every day, we are in truth becoming what we always were but somehow forgot. And we have to help others remember what they truly are, too.

    Hell is a state of mind and we all 'burn' to the extent that we resist our truest nature. "It is hard to kick against the goads."
    You could blame Plato and the entire sum of Greek thought for that zero-sum game. At least for the west. We could stand to learn a thing or two from eastern cultures, who emphasize the whole rather than the parts. Life isn't an either/or bargain, as much as some want it to be that way.

    Jesus recognized what you are talking about, I think, when he spoke about those who were first being last and the last being first. He turned the cultural expectation on its head, which I take to mean that he didn't see out "categories" or "boxes" as being the correct ones. Paul also mentions working out our salvation with fear and trembling, which calls back to the same concept.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  12. #8487
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    You could blame Plato and the entire sum of Greek thought for that zero-sum game. At least for the west. We could stand to learn a thing or two from eastern cultures, who emphasize the whole rather than the parts. Life isn't an either/or bargain, as much as some want it to be that way.

    Jesus recognized what you are talking about, I think, when he spoke about those who were first being last and the last being first. He turned the cultural expectation on its head, which I take to mean that he didn't see out "categories" or "boxes" as being the correct ones. Paul also mentions working out our salvation with fear and trembling, which calls back to the same concept.
    Yeah, exactly. I think Jesus always called people's attention back to their own state of mind, rather than comparing themselves with others. He never let anyone off the hook, because wherever they were in relation to others, they still hadn't completed their personal journey to union with God.

  13. #8488
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's Devotion:

    EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/28/
    "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose"--Romans 8:28

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “Would you like a jelly baby?”--The Doctor

  14. #8489
    Mighty Member tbaron's Avatar
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    My mom got me a bible a few days ago. I am not really religious. But I want to study and understand more. I am very jealous of people with true faith. That has always been lacking in my life. I dont know where my bible journey will lead but I want to understand more. If someone would give me advice on a good book to start with. Like should I start at the beginning? Or should I go into the New Testament with Jesus?
    Favorite teams. Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  15. #8490
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaron View Post
    My mom got me a bible a few days ago. I am not really religious. But I want to study and understand more. I am very jealous of people with true faith. That has always been lacking in my life. I dont know where my bible journey will lead but I want to understand more. If someone would give me advice on a good book to start with. Like should I start at the beginning? Or should I go into the New Testament with Jesus?
    Hello tbaron. It's very nice to see you here. Welcome to this thread. I would suggest you start with the new testament, particularly the gospel of John. It's the fourth book in the new testament. Then after that, I would read the other three gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke. These gospels cover Jesus' life, mission, death and resurrection.

    If you have any questions at all, please feel free to ask them here and we will gladly answer any and all questions.
    "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose"--Romans 8:28

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “Would you like a jelly baby?”--The Doctor

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