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  1. #7111
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    It was a standalone question originally, but I clarified last post. Anyway, I would back not interpreting scriptures as that's how religion has been twisted to seemingly endorse horrors all over the world but the flip side to that is a complete literal acceptance of them which is it's own kettle of fish. Like everything else in this world there must be some point of balance in the middle, a happy medium that we haven't reached yet. I'm not the one to claim that I know where it is, but considering the extremes of this situation I'm not going to cease trying to find it.
    Well there won't be a happy medium.

    Even if one finds it, why accept it? If an interpretation is convenient for me i will accept that. This is plaguing the Islamic community for example. Jihad means struggle against one's evil inclinations. That is struggle for the higher purpose. But its being twisted to commit so many atrocities.

    The leaders must be aware of the real meaning. But the other meaning is more beneficial to them. Though in reality it's not. Those who are cruel are punished by Allah(God).

    This applies both collectively and individually. Individually also, most people are happy with what is convenient. Not what is really beneficial. Rather what is convenient.


    Even i can give an interpretation. Its not a difficult thing. To the people who think Bible is written by humans, there is no problem. And those who accept it as truth may reject it as an interpretation. I beg forgiveness. I admit its a foolish business. Trying to comprehend the Infinite by someone so severely limited as me is a fool's errand.


    "Human beings are different from cats and dogs in that they have religion. Religion is not for animals. A dog won't sit and hear the Bible for example. Animals can't inquire into the nature of reality. They inquire too. But there inquiry is only about four things. Where is food? Where is shelter? Where is sex? How to defend? Eating. Sleeping. Mating. Defending. There are some birds singing nicely to attract a mate. Animals and birds talk in their language. Just like one may have heard two birds sitting on different trees. One bird will say something. The other bird on the separate tree will reply. 'Kaw, Kaw, Where is food?' 'Kaw, Kaw, I know where it is!'. Animals are very expert in defense. They have claws and teeth and horns. (Somehow humans are deficient by nature. They need tools).

    Human beings have evolved consciousness. Our intelligence is far greater then animals. But, we use it for the same things which animals do. One person may work very hard. Get money. Build a house. (Shelter). And what does the person do? Have sex in the bedroom. Dog is doing it in the street. And we do inside the bedroom. And somehow this is advancement. This is simply polished sex. Same thing. But more 'polished'. (Of course, nowadays people are degrading and giving up the polish too).

    So, this intelligence or power of discrimination is in human beings. Not in animals. A lion can't all of a sudden decide that i shall not be cruel to other animals. I shall be merciful and stop eating flesh. That is impossible for a lion. But that's possible for a human being. We have the ability to go 'beyond our nature'.

    After this background let us go back to Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were like that in the beginning. Made in God's image. But not really different from animals. But after the fruit was tasted they got this intelligence. This ability of discrimination. They were 'aware' that they were naked. After that they were punished by God and there was sin.

    Sin does not apply to animals. They have no capacity to understand what is sinful and what is not. But humans have this ability. That is why sin applies only to human beings. Just like law applies only to us. We have to keep to the right (or the left depending upon the country) of the street. We can't cross the road when its red. If we do so, we are punished by the government. But we can't punish an animal for breaking the law. An animal has no capacity to understand.

    God has given laws. Such laws can be understood through scriptures. They are practically in all religions. Don't kill. Don't steal. etc. Human beings can understand and act accordingly. Going against such laws is sin. Because these laws are given by God. Religion means law or order given by God. Going against that would be like disobeying the order of God. And disobeying God was the original sin.

    Its possible that fall of Adam and Eve was God's plan. God wanted to give them intelligence and discrimination. Without that both were no better then animals, even if they had a body like Him. He could easily have removed the tree itself. Why risk it? (It might also imply that God's plan somehow failed). This is in line with the understanding that sin applies only to human beings who have the power of discrimination.

    So, was it punishment or gift?

    It depends. Its said that ignorance is bliss. Intelligence or discrimination is inconvenience for those who want to act indiscriminately. Like animals. Eat anything. Do anything. No restriction. For them its a punishment. In a sense we all are like that.

    Its a gift too. For those who are intelligent, its a gift. After all human beings are 'intelligent'."


    Interpretations which take one away from God are also sinful. Just as sins take one away from God. This is a very dangerous business. I wrote this after putting much thought. Using one's intelligence to glorify God is best use of intelligence. Just as using one's intelligence to understand God.


    I would greatly appreciate this as I have asked far too many questions as a kid, and when people who were supposed to guide/teach/mentor me would try to shut down questioning or found the act of questioning them in itself wrong I felt they were lying to me or trying to conceal things they didn't want to deal with. I've never found that instinct to be wrong, (except with my exacerbated parents who just wanted some peace) and it has guided me well as far as I can tell.

    As for animals they are finding some interesting signs of intelligence in other animals as well. Young Apes have learned how to disarm poacher traps and patrol to break them, for example. That's not going into the various ones we can directly communicate with thanks to sign language. Then there's all the research going into examining not only the sea mammals but the cephalopods (Octopus/Squid/Cuttlefish) and they've found some very intriguing stuff if you feel like googling it, since Orca and Dolphins play games much as we do while the tentacled ones are far better and Monkey See/Do than actual monkeys.
    Thank you for the article.

    It again shows animals are intelligent. Though the use of intelligence was for defense. Disarming poacher traps is definitely defense. If we look carefully almost all human activities also come within these four principles. Religion is the extra function of a human being.

    And religion entails inquiry. We can't escape inquiry. There is inquiry in the parliament or senate. Inquiry in the stock exchange. Inquiry in the sports field. Inquiry in the laboratory. Everywhere. Its not possible to escape. But what is important is the subject matter of inquiry. God gave us the ability to inquire. But we use it to make the same inquiries that animals make.

    Athato brahma jijnasa, says Vedanta Sutra. Jijnasa meaning inquiry. Brahma means Absolute or Supreme. Athato means now. 'Now is the time to inquire about the Absolute Truth'. Volumes of books have been written about this aphorism. What it means is that now in human life you shall inquire about the Supreme.

    Inquiries are good. But even inquiry requires talent and intelligence. One can see the answers in the Bible. But not the questions. For instance there is no question about what is death? And how to avoid it? But one can see things like this.

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    [John 3:16]

    Yes, inquiry needs intelligence too. Just a while ago someone asked Why can't i see God? Why won't God come in front of me to prove Himself? Scriptures are not needed to answer this. Can one see in the darkness? If i believe my eyes, Sun is only a small disc. What can i see that i am going to see God? Of course, scripture has answers too. (For example from Bible one can understand that God's body was there when there were no material elements. Our viewing capacity is limited only to matter. And even that is limited).

    And God won't come in front of me just as Donald Trump has no obligation to meet me. Can i meet Donald Trump if i want to? If i can't meet the president of a country, what to speak of president of the whole universe! Yes these are excellent questions as they pertain to God. But these can be answered by using mere common sense. Anyone who has a little intelligence can answer this.

    In Bible, i can see the solutions. But not the whole process of inquiry. And thus, one can find gaps leaving room for interpretation. Otherwise, Bible is wonderful. There is nothing more auspicious in this world then that which can take one to God, as there is no one more auspicious then God.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 06-12-2018 at 04:21 AM.

  2. #7112
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    The Jewish do not believe in "The Devil" and that Satan (Sahtan) is an angel tasked by God to tempt people to test their faith but , guess you can say he is God's quality control but he is not used on a daily basis. That good and evil are both in man and that it is up the man to the follow the "good" path and that "The Satan" is the persons own internal tempter their urge to follow the "bad" path.

    The belief being that one of the difference between angels and humans would be "freewill". Humans have it angels don't. How could an angel rebel if it didn't have free will? In Jewish belief angels do Gods bidding with out question. Also it would be wrong to call any thing an adversary of God. To call one an adversary would be do say that he has the power to oppose God. If God is all powerful and omnipotent he is unopposable. So any actions that "Satan" does is allowed by God in turn would be doing Gods will. In the end the belief is that there is not need for the Christian Satan in the world because man in capable of evil all on his own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psimitar View Post
    But Satan was punished for his part in the Fall as well. Genesis 3:14-15 says:

    The Lord God said to the serpent,

    “Because you have done this,
    Cursed are you more than all cattle,
    And more than every beast of the field;
    On your belly you will go,
    And dust you will eat
    All the days of your life;
    And I will put enmity
    Between you and the woman,
    And between your seed and her seed;
    He shall bruise you on the head,
    And you shall bruise him on the heel.”

    So what we see here is an idiom of both the serpent and Satan. Verse 15 sets up the eternal struggle between Satan and mankind, the "woman's seed" being a prophecy of Christ. And while Satan will wound him (bruising his heel), Christ will ultimately defeat Satan (bruising his head). God officially declares war on Satan with this pronouncement. And from then on, Satan became the adversary of mankind for his destruction will come through man in the form of Jesus Christ.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    The fruit was placed within their grasp.
    The serpent was sent by God to trick them into taking it.
    God punished them and their descendants for taking it.
    His assignment done, Satan attempts to go on his way.
    God punishes the serpent for doing what he was told to do.
    Satan blames mankind for some reason, despite the idea that angels don't possess free will.
    If this is the case, then it'd be God making him blame mankind for being punished for doing what God told him to do.
    It makes no sense.

    I say its possible that Angels have free will. Doing things without question does not mean that there can't be free will. Free will can be there. And still one does whatever God asks. When someone is as awesome as God, its better to do what God says. Just a thought.


    And here's something more. What if this is all acting? If Marlon Brando can make one forget who he is while acting, why not God? Or even Satan. This is happening to teach us to not fall prey to Satan. Satan is bad and will be defeated finally. Possibly. After all Satan is given the dominion of Earth. That's punishment? This acting will continue even during the second coming of Christ. Its not said that Jesus will kill Satan. But 'bruise' the head. Just as Satan is 'bruising' the heel. I am not saying that a very good fight won't take place. This could be million times better then Goku and Frieza. But the enemity could be external. Both meanings of declared war and servant of God would be correct.

  3. #7113
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimitar View Post
    But Satan was punished for his part in the Fall as well. Genesis 3:14-15 says:

    The Lord God said to the serpent,

    “Because you have done this,
    Cursed are you more than all cattle,
    And more than every beast of the field;
    On your belly you will go,
    And dust you will eat
    All the days of your life;
    And I will put enmity
    Between you and the woman,
    And between your seed and her seed;
    He shall bruise you on the head,
    And you shall bruise him on the heel.”

    So what we see here is an idiom of both the serpent and Satan. Verse 15 sets up the eternal struggle between Satan and mankind, the "woman's seed" being a prophecy of Christ. And while Satan will wound him (bruising his heel), Christ will ultimately defeat Satan (bruising his head). God officially declares war on Satan with this pronouncement. And from then on, Satan became the adversary of mankind for his destruction will come through man in the form of Jesus Christ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    I say its possible that Angels have free will. Doing things without question does not mean that there can't be free will. Free will can be there. And still one does whatever God asks. When someone is as awesome as God, its better to do what God says. Just a thought.


    And here's something more. What if this is all acting? If Marlon Brando can make one forget who he is while acting, why not God? Or even Satan. This is happening to teach us to not fall prey to Satan. Satan is bad and will be defeated finally. Possibly. After all Satan is given the dominion of Earth. That's punishment? This acting will continue even during the second coming of Christ. Its not said that Jesus will kill Satan. But 'bruise' the head. Just as Satan is 'bruising' the heel. I am not saying that a very good fight won't take place. This could be million times better then Goku and Frieza. But the enemity could be external. Both meanings of declared war and servant of God would be correct.

    Using the only the Hebrew Bible, there is no devil ( Satan ). The serpent is marked as one of God's created animals Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made" There is no indication that it is the symbol of a "demonic" power and certainly not of "Satan." Genesis 3:14-1 even compares it to other "beast of the field". If the serpent was possessed by some force say "Satan" then why would God punish all serpents for the rest of time over something that it had no control of? If this where "God officially declares war on Satan " yet Satan is absent in the form of an adversary of God until the New Testament, 3000 years of silence. The serpent was just a crafty talking animal.

    What is the point of Satan? Why is he needed?
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  4. #7114
    Fantastic Member Psimitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    Using the only the Hebrew Bible, there is no devil ( Satan ). The serpent is marked as one of God's created animals Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made" There is no indication that it is the symbol of a "demonic" power and certainly not of "Satan." Genesis 3:14-1 even compares it to other "beast of the field". If the serpent was possessed by some force say "Satan" then why would God punish all serpents for the rest of time over something that it had no control of? If this where "God officially declares war on Satan " yet Satan is absent in the form of an adversary of God until the New Testament, 3000 years of silence. The serpent was just a crafty talking animal.

    What is the point of Satan? Why is he needed?
    Using the Christian Bible,

    And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,

    “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night. And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.” - Revelation 12:7-12 (NASB)

    While this is in the New Testament, it is referencing the War in Heaven that took place at some point between Creation and The Fall.

    And of course, if you look at the book of Job, one of the oldest books in the Old Testament:

    Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.” The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.” Then Satan answered the Lord, “Does Job fear God for nothing? Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face.” Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him.” So Satan departed from the presence of the Lord.

    So you can't really say that Satan is absent or silent on the Old Testament. Also, if you look at Ezekiel 28, the judgment on the King of Tyre is also an idiomatic model for the judgment of Satan.

  5. #7115
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimitar View Post
    Using the Christian Bible,

    And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,

    “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night. And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.” - Revelation 12:7-12 (NASB)

    While this is in the New Testament, it is referencing the War in Heaven that took place at some point between Creation and The Fall.

    And of course, if you look at the book of Job, one of the oldest books in the Old Testament:

    Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.” The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.” Then Satan answered the Lord, “Does Job fear God for nothing? Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face.” Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him.” So Satan departed from the presence of the Lord.

    So you can't really say that Satan is absent or silent on the Old Testament. Also, if you look at Ezekiel 28, the judgment on the King of Tyre is also an idiomatic model for the judgment of Satan.
    Job is a great example of the relationship between God and the satan, Its not a interaction between foes but of master and servant. How is the satan hanging out with God and the Angels if he was cast out? It is God that brought Job into the conversation for the satan's consideration, Why? Because it is the satan's task to evaluate and accuse humans, and so he does. Then God give the satan a task with instructions and as a servant of God he follows orders. (funny how the old testament has changed the satan from the Hebrew Bible to just Satan.)

    Not saying that a satan is absent in the Hebrew bible, the modern idea of satan is.

    Ezekiel is not talking about Satan he is speaking of Adam that all men are Adam, of what happened whey he tried to be equal to God. How can he compare him to an fallen Angel that no one knows exist because he is no where else in the Hebrew Bible yet the story of Adam is well known. And I'm sure Isaiah 14 will come up too and that a parable to the king of Babylon from Isaiah not Satan either. The devil in the New Testament is not some immortal supernatural fallen angel either.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 06-13-2018 at 01:02 PM.
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  6. #7116
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    DIVINE SILENCE? OUR FEELING OF ANGER
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/12/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    He is indeed! Glad all is well.
    Thanks David
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

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    Today's devotion:

    DIVINE SILENCE? OUR FEELING OF EMPTINESS
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/13/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  9. #7119
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    DIVINE SILENCE? GOD SPEAKS!
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/14/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

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    Astonishing Member Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon's Avatar
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    I'm astounded persons repeatedly say the Bible condones rape which is a damn lie.

    NIV 2nd Samuel 13:12
    "No my brother!" she said to him. "Don't force me! Such a thing should not be done in Israel! Don't do this wicked thing."

    Tamar said to Amnon discouraging him not to rape her, and condemning the disturbing awful action.
    It is mentioned in Genesis 34 as a gross violation of God's design for the treatment of the human body.
    Deuteronomy 22:13-29 speaks directly against forcing a woman against her to will to have sex which is rape.

    Also Deuteronomy 22:25-27 The woman is innocent which is why the only person punished is the predatory offender the man which is stone the guilty man.
    The extreme punishment for the rapist, and it's obvious rape is a dreadful sin in the eyes of God.

    Also Numbers 31 amd similar passages about Israelites taking female captives of nations they conquered the passage doesn't say anything about raping the captive women which is why it's nonsensical for critics the captive women were raped because nothing logical and sensible supports that claim.
    Also the captive women are never referred to as sex objects, and p indications that sex slavery and rape was forced upon the women.
    Also New Testament is clear Romans 13 that Christians are to obey Laws of their governing authorities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon View Post
    I'm astounded persons repeatedly say the Bible condones rape which is a damn lie.

    NIV 2nd Samuel 13:12
    "No my brother!" she said to him. "Don't force me! Such a thing should not be done in Israel! Don't do this wicked thing."

    Tamar said to Amnon discouraging him not to rape her, and condemning the disturbing awful action.
    It is mentioned in Genesis 34 as a gross violation of God's design for the treatment of the human body.
    Deuteronomy 22:13-29 speaks directly against forcing a woman against her to will to have sex which is rape.

    Also Deuteronomy 22:25-27 The woman is innocent which is why the only person punished is the predatory offender the man which is stone the guilty man.
    The extreme punishment for the rapist, and it's obvious rape is a dreadful sin in the eyes of God.

    Also Numbers 31 amd similar passages about Israelites taking female captives of nations they conquered the passage doesn't say anything about raping the captive women which is why it's nonsensical for critics the captive women were raped because nothing logical and sensible supports that claim.
    Also the captive women are never referred to as sex objects, and p indications that sex slavery and rape was forced upon the women.
    Also New Testament is clear Romans 13 that Christians are to obey Laws of their governing authorities.
    The only place that I can think of where the critic might make a case is Genesis 19 where Lot offers up his daughters to appease the men of Sodom who wanted to gang rape the two angels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimitar View Post
    The only place that I can think of where the critic might make a case is Genesis 19 where Lot offers up his daughters to appease the men of Sodom who wanted to gang rape the two angels.
    Well, there was that time Lot's daughters got him drunk and raped him... The Bible seems to be completely on board with that.

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    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    It's really hard to read this any way but commanding genocide and rape of the young woman.


    Numbers 31:15-18 King James Version (KJV)

    15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

    16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

    17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

    18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


    I am sure some will explain why this isn't rape at all, but objectively, it is pretty clear.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    It's really hard to read this any way but commanding genocide and rape of the young woman.


    Numbers 31:15-18 King James Version (KJV)

    15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

    16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

    17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

    18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


    I am sure some will explain why this isn't rape at all, but objectively, it is pretty clear.
    Try consulting a Bible expert before you lot go around passing judgement on things you know nothing about. Also there was no rape they were simply kept as servants if they did God would be very angry again at the Israelites. Read Deuteronomy 22:23-28 especially 25 which shows that God forbade rape.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 06-15-2018 at 06:12 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Well, there was that time Lot's daughters got him drunk and raped him... The Bible seems to be completely on board with that.
    Don't talk about what you don't know.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

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