Are you reading the bible? And if so.....

[The Whovian]

I think the Bible is largely authentic, that is the translations and transcriptions are more or less true to the originals. But the contridictions and inconsistencies, the things counter to real history, show a religious document that doesn't reflect reality.
Why do you think God is so obtuse. Why does he allow things that aren't true in the Bible?

How is God obtuse and what things in the bible aren't true?

[The Whovian]

Today's devotion:

A TREASURE IN JARS OF CLAY
https://www.todayintheword.org/issue...tions/june-29/

[Kirby101]

How is God obtuse and what things in the bible aren't true?

Obtuse was the wrong word. Ambiguous is better.

Genesis, through Exodus for one thing.

[The Whovian]

Today's devotion:

IN CHRIST ARE HIDDEN ALL TREASURES
https://www.todayintheword.org/issue...tions/june-30/

[The Whovian]

Obtuse was the wrong word. Ambiguous is better.

Genesis, through Exodus for one thing.

In what way?

[The Whovian]

Throughout this thread, we have had many discussions on and questions about the Holy Trinity and how it works. Or to explain it. I think this may be perhaps the best article to read in regards to that question.

I would encourage everyone to read this, especially if you're a non-believer or you're not sure what to believe. If, after reading this article, anyone still has questions, I am more than happy to try and answer them. And I'm sure there are others here who would be willing to answer any questions as well.

https://www.christianity.com/god/tri...-11634405.html

[Kirby101]

In what way?

Well none of it really happened and you get things that are in complete conflict with science today and how we know the Universe works.

If you need specifics, rather than me write a few and then we go back and forth, there are oodles of websites that list the contradictions and errors in the Bible.

[adkal]

The church at the time wasn't nearly centralized or influential enough to pull off something like that. Christianity had developed in the preceding few centuries as an underground religion with basically autonomous local churches interpreting the Bible however they wanted.

Most of the early churches relied on copies of various Gospels - usually one text - of which there were dozens. There are references made to them in various pieces of correspondence that have survived.

This was one of the issues that needed to be resolved as the Church became more widespread and established, as you outline below:

The first ecumenical councils had a hard enough time just finding agreement on what little they could, ordering a complete rewrite of the Bible and pretending like that was how it always had been was far beyond the scope of what the church could do at the time. Not to mention that even attempting something like this would invite countless heretical movements claiming to be in possession of the "true" Bible and not the fraudulent version propagated by the powers that be. And that's even assuming they would know what to write, the Bible is a collection of myths and legends that evolved organically over thousands of years into its present form, inventing an alternate story on the spot would be nearly impossible.

This 'jab', though, is quite unnecessary:

Interestingly enough, there were some radical preachers who basically did exactly what you said. They wanted to borrow some of the traditions and teachings of Christianity but didn't want to be weighed down by all that stuff in the Bible that was too difficult to explain or justify, so they just wrote a new holy text and claimed that this was really the true scripture all along, the Bible having long been corrupted by human mistakes. That book of course is the Quran.

The Book of Mormon, together with the Doctrine and Covenants and the The Pearl of Great Price are better suited to the description you've put forward, especially since the latter contains things like 'The Book of Moses' and 'The Book of Abraham'.

[The Whovian]

The Book of Mormon, together with the Doctrine and Covenants and the The Pearl of Great Price are better suited to the description you've put forward, especially since the latter contains things like 'The Book of Moses' and 'The Book of Abraham'.

And I would put forth that the Mormon doctrine is not Christianity at all. They claim that we all can end up being gods and goddesses of our own planets, etc. This is heresy and completely false Christian doctrine. It is all made up by Joseph Smith.

[The Whovian]

Today's devotion:

RETURN TO THE LORD
https://www.todayintheword.org/issue...tions/july-01/

[Moon Ronin]

The Book of Mormon, together with the Doctrine and Covenants and the The Pearl of Great Price are better suited to the description you've put forward, especially since the latter contains things like 'The Book of Moses' and 'The Book of Abraham'.

Mormonism is... something. And from it's early years it's beginnings have been compared to Islam's.

And I would put forth that the Mormon doctrine is not Christianity at all. They claim that we all can end up being gods and goddesses of our own planets, etc. This is heresy and completely false Christian doctrine. It is all made up by Joseph Smith.

I think his point was that there were people that tried to rewrite or drastically change Christianity by adding to and/or editing the Bible. Not that it was widely accepted Christian belief in those books.

[foxley]

Interestingly enough, there were some radical preachers who basically did exactly what you said. They wanted to borrow some of the traditions and teachings of Christianity but didn't want to be weighed down by all that stuff in the Bible that was too difficult to explain or justify, so they just wrote a new holy text and claimed that this was really the true scripture all along, the Bible having long been corrupted by human mistakes. That book of course is the Quran.

Interesting that you get offended if others disparage Christianity, but you somehow feel you have licence to disparage other religions.

[Kirby101]

Interesting that you get offended if others disparage Christianity, but you somehow feel you have licence to disparage other religions.

I don't think PwrdOn has a problem disparaging Christianity, or at least the Church that evolved around it. He did compare Jesus to Karl Marx.

And he did say this:
"the Bible is a collection of myths and legends that evolved organically over thousands of years into its present form"

[foxley]

I don't think PwrdOn has a problem disparaging Christianity, or at least the Church that evolved around it. He did compare Jesus to Karl Marx.

And he did say this:
"the Bible is a collection of myths and legends that evolved organically over thousands of years into its present form"

My apologies. I dip into and out of this thread and obviously missed some context.

[Kirby101]

My apologies. I dip into and out of this thread and obviously missed some context.

No problem, this thread usually stays away from criticizing religion. But the current discussion is from Whovian asking non-believers their opinion. So it's a bit more blaspmamous.