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  1. #8086
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I think the Bible is largely authentic, that is the translations and transcriptions are more or less true to the originals. But the contridictions and inconsistencies, the things counter to real history, show a religious document that doesn't reflect reality.
    Why do you think God is so obtuse. Why does he allow things that aren't true in the Bible?
    How is God obtuse and what things in the bible aren't true?
    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  2. #8087
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    A TREASURE IN JARS OF CLAY
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue...tions/june-29/
    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  3. #8088
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    How is God obtuse and what things in the bible aren't true?
    Obtuse was the wrong word. Ambiguous is better.

    Genesis, through Exodus for one thing.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  4. #8089
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    IN CHRIST ARE HIDDEN ALL TREASURES
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue...tions/june-30/
    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  5. #8090
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Obtuse was the wrong word. Ambiguous is better.

    Genesis, through Exodus for one thing.
    In what way?
    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  6. #8091
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Throughout this thread, we have had many discussions on and questions about the Holy Trinity and how it works. Or to explain it. I think this may be perhaps the best article to read in regards to that question.

    I would encourage everyone to read this, especially if you're a non-believer or you're not sure what to believe. If, after reading this article, anyone still has questions, I am more than happy to try and answer them. And I'm sure there are others here who would be willing to answer any questions as well.

    https://www.christianity.com/god/tri...-11634405.html
    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  7. #8092
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    In what way?
    Well none of it really happened and you get things that are in complete conflict with science today and how we know the Universe works.

    If you need specifics, rather than me write a few and then we go back and forth, there are oodles of websites that list the contradictions and errors in the Bible.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  8. #8093
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    The church at the time wasn't nearly centralized or influential enough to pull off something like that. Christianity had developed in the preceding few centuries as an underground religion with basically autonomous local churches interpreting the Bible however they wanted.
    Most of the early churches relied on copies of various Gospels - usually one text - of which there were dozens. There are references made to them in various pieces of correspondence that have survived.

    This was one of the issues that needed to be resolved as the Church became more widespread and established, as you outline below:

    The first ecumenical councils had a hard enough time just finding agreement on what little they could, ordering a complete rewrite of the Bible and pretending like that was how it always had been was far beyond the scope of what the church could do at the time. Not to mention that even attempting something like this would invite countless heretical movements claiming to be in possession of the "true" Bible and not the fraudulent version propagated by the powers that be. And that's even assuming they would know what to write, the Bible is a collection of myths and legends that evolved organically over thousands of years into its present form, inventing an alternate story on the spot would be nearly impossible.
    This 'jab', though, is quite unnecessary:

    Interestingly enough, there were some radical preachers who basically did exactly what you said. They wanted to borrow some of the traditions and teachings of Christianity but didn't want to be weighed down by all that stuff in the Bible that was too difficult to explain or justify, so they just wrote a new holy text and claimed that this was really the true scripture all along, the Bible having long been corrupted by human mistakes. That book of course is the Quran.
    The Book of Mormon, together with the Doctrine and Covenants and the The Pearl of Great Price are better suited to the description you've put forward, especially since the latter contains things like 'The Book of Moses' and 'The Book of Abraham'.

  9. #8094
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post

    The Book of Mormon, together with the Doctrine and Covenants and the The Pearl of Great Price are better suited to the description you've put forward, especially since the latter contains things like 'The Book of Moses' and 'The Book of Abraham'.
    And I would put forth that the Mormon doctrine is not Christianity at all. They claim that we all can end up being gods and goddesses of our own planets, etc. This is heresy and completely false Christian doctrine. It is all made up by Joseph Smith.
    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  10. #8095
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    RETURN TO THE LORD
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue...tions/july-01/
    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  11. #8096
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    The Book of Mormon, together with the Doctrine and Covenants and the The Pearl of Great Price are better suited to the description you've put forward, especially since the latter contains things like 'The Book of Moses' and 'The Book of Abraham'.
    Mormonism is... something. And from it's early years it's beginnings have been compared to Islam's.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    And I would put forth that the Mormon doctrine is not Christianity at all. They claim that we all can end up being gods and goddesses of our own planets, etc. This is heresy and completely false Christian doctrine. It is all made up by Joseph Smith.
    I think his point was that there were people that tried to rewrite or drastically change Christianity by adding to and/or editing the Bible. Not that it was widely accepted Christian belief in those books.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 07-01-2019 at 12:28 PM.
    Surely not everybody was kung fu fighting

  12. #8097
    Mighty Member foxley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Interestingly enough, there were some radical preachers who basically did exactly what you said. They wanted to borrow some of the traditions and teachings of Christianity but didn't want to be weighed down by all that stuff in the Bible that was too difficult to explain or justify, so they just wrote a new holy text and claimed that this was really the true scripture all along, the Bible having long been corrupted by human mistakes. That book of course is the Quran.
    Interesting that you get offended if others disparage Christianity, but you somehow feel you have licence to disparage other religions.

  13. #8098
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxley View Post
    Interesting that you get offended if others disparage Christianity, but you somehow feel you have licence to disparage other religions.
    I don't think PwrdOn has a problem disparaging Christianity, or at least the Church that evolved around it. He did compare Jesus to Karl Marx.

    And he did say this:
    "the Bible is a collection of myths and legends that evolved organically over thousands of years into its present form"
    Last edited by Kirby101; 07-01-2019 at 03:02 PM.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  14. #8099
    Mighty Member foxley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I don't think PwrdOn has a problem disparaging Christianity, or at least the Church that evolved around it. He did compare Jesus to Karl Marx.

    And he did say this:
    "the Bible is a collection of myths and legends that evolved organically over thousands of years into its present form"
    My apologies. I dip into and out of this thread and obviously missed some context.

  15. #8100
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxley View Post
    My apologies. I dip into and out of this thread and obviously missed some context.
    No problem, this thread usually stays away from criticizing religion. But the current discussion is from Whovian asking non-believers their opinion. So it's a bit more blaspmamous.
    Last edited by Kirby101; 07-02-2019 at 10:37 AM.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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