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  1. #8221
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  2. #8222
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    Except none of that occurred. The parents were very adamant that they never told the child because they didn't want her to know.
    You can categorically rule out that the child heard them talk about the dead sibling once when they were discussing it between themselves without asking the people involved? Also: Nothing the parents can say could rule out people other than the parents telling them something about it.

  3. #8223
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    The idea of the God/Brain in Michelangelo's painting was not brought up until the 90s. There is also a theory that it is an image of a uterus too.
    Yuck, I'll stick to the brain conjecture.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  4. #8224
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    Except none of that occurred. The parents were very adamant that they never told the child because they didn't want her to know.
    Except I have seen too many cases like this that they are adamant, and wrong. Do you have a link for this story?
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  5. #8225
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    No way of knowing, but I find speculation about this kind of thing fascinating.

    I would submit the idea that reality is perhaps a bit more...fluid...in a pure spiritual state. But no less 'real' for it. You would probably 'see' many of the things you expect to see, because that's the only way you could initially take in a reality where 'sight' is no longer an objective physical phenomena.

    One of the most interesting aspects of Jesus' post-resurrection body is that he was capable of walking through walls when he wanted, but he had physical substance (and even scars). So there's this hint of the spiritual and physical worlds lining up in way they don't currently.

    I once read an interesting take on the resurrection. The author suggested that we traditionally think of hunger, thirst and exhaustion as having no part in that experience, but he theorized they would because eating, drinking and resting are pleasurable because of them. It's just you wouldn't be worried about dying from lack of water or anything. Like that first sip of water you take after working outside on a hot day is heavenly. And certainly when you think of living the fullest possible life, pushing your body to the limits is one of its greatest joys. And you can't do that unless you have limits!

  6. #8226
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    God made our brains to have capabilities we do not understand. Last night I watched a special on the sinking of the U.S.S. Indianapolis. The surviving men were in the water for nearly five days without food and water, nearly freezing to death at night and getting nearly baked in the day. Sharks were around, people were dying around them. Each of the survivors said basically that will power got them through - the mind, in other words. Incidentally they also all said they prayed constantly.

    To me, the NDEs are an example of the mind extrapolating an environment based on knowledge of part of it. Its possible for our brains, for instance, to conjure up an aerial view of something which we have only seen in a sideways perspective. TO me it doesn't prove God's existence or heaven's existence either way, but it also does not dispute those things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    The idea of the God/Brain in Michelangelo's painting was not brought up until the 90s. There is also a theory that it is an image of a uterus too.
    And also kidneys, apparently, just because Michelangelo had kidney stones or was interested in them or something.

    I'm not certain it was intentional. When I really think critically about that era and the politics and religion at the time, it seems awfully suspect that Michelangelo would have tried to put one over on the Pope or that he intended the entire Sistine Chapel to be some kind of secret message. True, there are a couple of self-portraits in the work of him being tortured but he could have been doing that because he himself felt anguish at undergoing such an undertaking. That chapel is huge, I can't imagine the effort of doing that.

    The work itself was definitely God-inspired, I felt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I have been there 3 times. Before and after the restoration. I wasn't aware of this.This is an interesting conjecture. Since we have nothing from Michelangelo that confirms this, it remains speculation. But it is not outside the realm of possibility. Did he see Leonardo's anatomy work by this point?
    I'll just be agnostic about this.
    I'm jealous! Every Michelangelo work is a gift to humanity, I think. This visit I went and saw the Moses for the first time - it did not disappoint.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 08-16-2019 at 02:18 PM.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  7. #8227
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    The work itself was definitely God-inspired, I felt.
    I feel it is as well, though I've never had the pleasure of seeing it in person.
    Last edited by David Walton; 08-16-2019 at 02:51 PM.

  8. #8228
    Mighty Member foxley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    Except none of that occurred. The parents were very adamant that they never told the child because they didn't want her to know.
    As Dalak said, that rules out precisely one of the options I suggested.

    Now that I've answered your question, will you answer mine? Why do some people having NDEs see things other than Heaven or Hell?

  9. #8229
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Except I have seen too many cases like this that they are adamant, and wrong. Do you have a link for this story?
    Hey Kirby. No, it's been a long time since I've seen the story. But it's not just one case, it is many like this.
    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  10. #8230
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxley View Post
    As Dalak said, that rules out precisely one of the options I suggested.

    Now that I've answered your question, will you answer mine? Why do some people having NDEs see things other than Heaven or Hell?
    Hey Foxley, you would have to give me some examples. I haven't heard of any that you are describing.
    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  11. #8231
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    GLORIFIED AND CLARIFIED
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue...ugust-17-2019/
    "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever"--Isaiah 40:8

    “A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a little boy’s shoulder to let him know that the world hadn't ended.”--Batman

    “You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don’t alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views.”--The Doctor

  12. #8232
    Mighty Member foxley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    Hey Foxley, you would have to give me some examples. I haven't heard of any that you are describing.
    Many Hindus report having encountered the Yamraj, the Hindu king of the dead. Others report an overwhelming sense of nothingness. I have read an account of someone seeing their own funeral.

    I could go on, but these should suffice to say that not everyone sees Heaven/Hell and dead siblings they've heard of. Why?

  13. #8233
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    NDEs can't be real, because if they are, then there is proof of Heaven and the afterlife, and with proof you would need no faith, and faith is the most important part of belief.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  14. #8234
    What fresh hell is this? ChadH's Avatar
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    I have a good friend who "died" in a car accident and woke up in the morgue. He recounts meeting a being who wanted to speak with him regarding the number 29 for some important reason.
    The Cover Contest Weekly Winners Thread So much winning!!

    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
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  15. #8235
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    For those interested here is a clinical NDE Study -

    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f06...0765ef8926.pdf *

    Warning this is a PDF file.

    Now perhaps this is a purely biological process all I'm saying is due to the data clusters something is taking place beyond simple hallucinations. There are clear patterns involved. What is the underlying cause of those patterns is up for debate but their existence is not (they can be found throughout every study of the subject matter in similar numbers relative to sample size).
    Last edited by Celgress; 08-17-2019 at 07:27 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

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