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  1. #8551
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    1 Corinthians 7

    Marriage is a burden and should be resisted if possible.

    And you should stay who you are when you are called to God... unless you're gay, stop being gay.
    I find these statements to be a dishonest misrepresentation of the Bible.
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  2. #8552
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    I find these statements to be a dishonest misrepresentation of the Bible.
    have you read 1 Corinthians 7?

    Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife
    But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
    What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;
    I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided.
    So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better
    Paul was not really a fan of marriage.
    Nevertheless, each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches.
    I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people
    What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
    That was Paul's thinking, Jesus was different that his Idea is that you did go look for the "Lost Sheep" and would have gone and eaten with them.
    So yeah it is a misrepresentation of the Gospel... it just happens to be Paul's representation of it.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 02-28-2020 at 02:48 PM.
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  3. #8553
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    So Jesus disciples brought this very question up to him, after Jesus taught them about divorce. I'm just going to post the whole sequence from Matthew 19:

    3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

    4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

    7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

    8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

    10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

    11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.

    12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

    Enigmatic. But people read it that Jesus considered celibacy a good thing, agreeing with Paul. I've read such interpretations of this passage before. He flat out says that the one who can accept this (being a eunuch, celebacy) should do that.

    Either way, its obviously (to me) opinion on the part of both Jesus and Paul. Not to say that God's opinion doesn't matter but even he states that Moses had to make an exception. To me, this gives me comfort that marriage and divorce are one of those gray areas as far as how we deal with it in culture.

    Who am I to say that gays aren't similarly in that "gray area" boat? The Bible is clear about some things but again is it opinion or command? And where does God's grace fit in? This is part of the reason a thread like this exists in the first place. Theologians struggle with this stuff.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 02-28-2020 at 04:03 PM.
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  4. #8554
    Incredible Member luprki's Avatar
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    The homosexual issue is a struggle for christians. Those who condemn homosexuality seems to know deep down that they are wrong, but don’t want to go against the church.
    Also the Bible never talks about same-same attractions, it really doesn’t mention anything about LGBTQ people.

    My theory is at the time the Bible was written LGBTQ people was so low in population it wasn’t worth talking about. But these days LGBTQ has a voice.

  5. #8555
    Fantastic Member Psimitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    The homosexual issue is a struggle for christians. Those who condemn homosexuality seems to know deep down that they are wrong, but don’t want to go against the church.
    Also the Bible never talks about same-same attractions, it really doesn’t mention anything about LGBTQ people.

    My theory is at the time the Bible was written LGBTQ people was so low in population it wasn’t worth talking about. But these days LGBTQ has a voice.
    I think it's the exact opposite. The homosexual issue is indeed a struggle for Christians. The Bible specifically condemns it and Christians who understand the Bible to be the authoritative Word of God knows that deep down, homosexuality is wrong, but they are put under an extreme amount of pressure by society and the world to normalize and affirm it. But ever since God brought the Israelites out of Egypt, his plan was for his people to be a counter-culture, one that follows God and is different than the rest of the cultures surrounding it. Regarding homosexuality, it was commonplace in the cultures surrounding Israel therefore it was expressly forbidden under the Law of Moses (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13). Jesus never addressed homosexuality specifically during his ministry because his ministry centered on the Jews who were still living under the Law of Moses where again, homosexuality was expressly forbidden. It wasn't until Paul began preaching the Gospel to the Gentile nations that he had to address it (Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9) because it was still being practice by the pagan nations of the Greco-Roman world.

    This Bible doesn't mention anything about LGBTQ people because it doesn't make that distinction. God doesn't make people LGBTQ anymore more than God makes alcoholics or pedophiles. We live in a fallen world and some of us are more susceptible to certain kinds of sins than others. But regardless of the sin, God calls on all of us to repent of those sins and try to resist those temptations.

    If God is objective Truth, the Bible is the objective Truth of God's Word, then we have to face the truth of how God intended us to relate to each other sexually. And that is within the confines of a marriage between one man and one woman (Matthew 19:4-6). Yes it would be easier if God allowed for homosexual relations, but he did not. Therefore we have to stand behind that objective Truth of God's Word. That doesn't mean that Christians should treat LGBTQ people as less-than. But it dos mean that we're to speak the Truth in Love (Ephesians 4:15) to all mankind.

  6. #8556
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimitar View Post
    That doesn't mean that Christians should treat LGBTQ people as less-than. But it dos mean that we're to speak the Truth in Love (Ephesians 4:15) to all mankind.
    You literally just compared LGBT+ people to pedophiles! You DO very much treat them as less-than in your obvious contempt for them. That's just a fact! To pretend otherwise is delusion.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 03-01-2020 at 12:30 PM.
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  7. #8557
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    If God is "Objective Truth" why is that truth so obscure that people literally go to war over different interpretations of the Bible. If the Bible is the "Objective truth of God's Word" why is so much of it not objectively true. From History that didn't happen to people who didn't exist?
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  8. #8558
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    The homosexual issue is a struggle for christians. Those who condemn homosexuality seems to know deep down that they are wrong, but don’t want to go against the church.
    Also the Bible never talks about same-same attractions, it really doesn’t mention anything about LGBTQ people.

    My theory is at the time the Bible was written LGBTQ people was so low in population it wasn’t worth talking about. But these days LGBTQ has a voice.
    Scripture is God breathed and inspired by the Holy Spirit. God knew the future when His words were written down.
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

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  9. #8559
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    GATES AND DOORS
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/01/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  10. #8560
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    If Jesus was here right now, he would certainly condemn sexual immorality (including homosexuality)
    Why do you say this? Why do you feel he'd change his mind about eating shellfish and mixing fabrics, but not homosexiality?

  11. #8561
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    Isn’t it natural for homosexuals to have attraction and relation with the same-sex?
    When the Bible speak for unnatural attraction and relation, it maybe only referring to heterosexuals who comments act with the same-sex?

    More simple reword:
    Is Homosexuals with the same-sex are natural?
    Is Heterosexuals with the same-sex are unnatural?
    Is it unnatural for a homosexual to be with the opposite sex?
    I really despise the word "natural" more than any other. It has a meaning, but no real value. Natural isn't better than unnatural any more than red is better than green.

    For some reason though, people like to act like natural is somehow better than unnatural.

  12. #8562
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    PROTECTION AND SECURITY
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/02/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  13. #8563
    Incredible Member luprki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    I really despise the word "natural" more than any other. It has a meaning, but no real value. Natural isn't better than unnatural any more than red is better than green.

    For some reason though, people like to act like natural is somehow better than unnatural.
    That’s a good point you make, I never thought about it that way. Unnatural shouldn’t mean it’s bad or it’s a sin. Everybody does things that are unnatural everyday.
    Here a list of common unnatural act:
    1Driving a car
    2Wearing clothes and shoes
    3On a computer or phone
    4Eating process foods
    5Combing hair
    To name a few

    My point is, just about everything we do is unnatural.
    Last edited by luprki; 03-03-2020 at 12:11 PM.

  14. #8564
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Man has been "unnatural" since he started forming civilizations 10,000 years ago.

    But couldn't one say the Bible is unnatural. A divine being who is supernatural (beyond the laws of nature) gives Man his words. And in fact many of the decrees there in are different from the natural lives at that time.
    Last edited by Kirby101; 03-03-2020 at 12:19 PM.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  15. #8565
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Man has been "unnatural" since he started forming civilizations 10,000 years ago.

    But couldn't one say the Bible is unnatural. A divine being who is supernatural (beyond the laws of nature) gives Man his words. And in fact many of the decrees there in are different from the natural lives at that time.
    Well the only natural time was with Adam and Eve in the garden, with all the animals and plants in harmony. Thats the world God made for us. But our disobedience, following free will, led to the destructive world we live in today.

    Homosexuality is not any different from any other sin. And we struggle with all of them. Bottom line is this is why Christians need to seek God constantly, because they never reach a point where they are perfect and without sin. Due to original sin, basically.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

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