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  1. #8791
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimitar View Post
    Another angle to consider: In Genesis 3:22, God says-

    “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”

    If you look at the grammar, there, God doesn't finish the sentence. It's like the outcome was too horrible to contemplate. Prior to the Fall, Adam and Eve were not forbidden to eat from the Tree of Life, but attaining immortality in their fallen, sinful state was literally a fate worse than death. And this is what necessitated their eviction from Eden. God was protecting them from having to live with their sin forever. Think about every sci-fi/fantasy book or film or media where the subject is immortality. The immortal person is almost always trying to figure out how to die. They're looking for a release. Why is that? Because there's only so much garbage we can take. That is why our resurrection into new eternal bodies that are free from the defect of sin coincide with the new heaven and new earth (1 Corinthians 15:12-58; Revelation 21-22). Our eternality is tied to God finally purging sin and evil and death from our existence.
    So, first off, the usual disclaimer. I'm a Christian but not a fundamentalist. I don't take the creation account or that of the fall literally.

    I do believe the myth speaks to us on various levels. It is the foundation of our faith, warts and all, so to speak.

    At the first level, I think it's about personal ego, the moment when you realize that you're, well, you. And this is followed shortly by the realization that you can and will die one day. The thing I call "I" will cease to be, at least in the sense that I currently understand myself.

    As far as the fall goes, I think it goes without saying that you can't break a commandment you can't comprehend. So it's a potentially dangerous line of thought to take the account literally. What I think the story does, though, is retroactively apply a more mature understanding of 'love your neighbor' to the beginning of personal ego. Understanding myself as 'a' self opens me up to the possibility of understanding others and working for their good as well as mine. But the author frames this revelation as a tragedy, because it also means understanding that we are incapable of doing everything we can and should for our fellow human being. From the moment we understand 'self,' we will always feel trapped by it. Torn between what we want and what we ought. As Paul says, "Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me."

    At any rate, I think you're right about why immortality can never be seen as a gift until we are transformed inside as well as out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    It seems to me that you are right, God's purpose was to save us from being immortally mundane beings.
    "Immortally mundane beings"--I love how you've phrased that!

    The Tree of Life was not forbidden before the fall, right? Not expressly. It was the eating of the Tree of Knowledge that linked Adam and Eve to death (Genesis 2:16-17) - "when you eat from it, you shall die." This tells me that Adam and Eve could have been eating from the Tree of Life in the Eden days. They no longer had access to the Tree of Life, though, after getting exiled from Eden. But they were still immortal beings, just not physically:

    "There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilizations - these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub and exploit - immortal horrors or everlasting splendors. This does not mean that we are to be perpetually solemn. We must play. But our merriment must be of that kind (and it is, in fact, the merriest kind) which exists between people who have, from the outset, taken each other seriously - no flippancy, no superiority, no presumption.” -CS Lewis, The Weight of Glory

    God could have made them immortal in the first place, too. I wonder if that, in part, is what is meant by "image of God."
    That is a great C.S. Lewis quote that puts our relationships in perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    So you are parsing the English words of a story taken from an earlier Babylonian myth and then translated into several dead languages over a few millennia before we get it in it's current form?
    I am amazed at people who know it's exact meaning and what God actually wanted.
    I'm agreed that can be problematic. On the flip side, not being a literalist, I believe even flawed texts can be used by God to speak truth, sometimes more personal than universal.

    A corrupted Shakespeare folio still tells us more about his work than nothing--though it would be dangerous to pin our entire understanding of him on a single passage!
    Last edited by David Walton; 06-09-2020 at 08:52 AM.

  2. #8792
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    FAILURE AND GOD’S TIMING
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/09/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  3. #8793
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    THE PROPHET WHO DISOBEYED
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/10/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  4. #8794
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotion:

    FAILURE AND REVIVAL
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/11/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  5. #8795
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    Fellow Christian here. I'm currently reading a chronological Bible and it's really neat to read biblical history in the order, or as close to the order, as it happened. So, it jumps around a bit but it's fun. I'm currently up to just past the life of Solomon.

  6. #8796
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    Fellow Christian here. I'm currently reading a chronological Bible and it's really neat to read biblical history in the order, or as close to the order, as it happened. So, it jumps around a bit but it's fun. I'm currently up to just past the life of Solomon.
    That's cool! I've never had a chronological Bible. To be honest, I often find the timelines confusing when you get into the era of the kings, as to where each book of prophecy falls.

  7. #8797
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    Fellow Christian here. I'm currently reading a chronological Bible and it's really neat to read biblical history in the order, or as close to the order, as it happened. So, it jumps around a bit but it's fun. I'm currently up to just past the life of Solomon.
    I have never done it this way but it sure sounds interesting. I'll have to try to find a reading order for this or a bible like this. I'm almost on Revelation and then I want to start over again, so this might be the way to go.
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  8. #8798
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    Today's devotion:

    NO ONE LISTENED
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/12/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  9. #8799
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    Today's devotion:

    THE SUCCESSFUL TRAP
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/13/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  10. #8800
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    And I want to put it out there that things in the U.S. and elsewhere seems pretty bad with the protesting/violence and the coronavirus but God will see us through this. For me, I'm glad to know he's always with me.

  11. #8801
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    And I want to put it out there that things in the U.S. and elsewhere seems pretty bad with the protesting/violence and the coronavirus but God will see us through this. For me, I'm glad to know he's always with me.
    Amen brother! And welcome to the boards and this thread!
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  12. #8802
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    Today's devotion:

    THE FREEDOM OF IMPRISONMENT
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/14/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  13. #8803
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    Today's devotion:

    THE TRIUMPH OF THE CROSS
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/15/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  14. #8804
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    Today's devotion:

    GOD’S STEADFAST MERCY
    https://www.todayintheword.org/issue.../devotions/16/
    One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.--Psalm 27:4

    “Fortunately for me, I'm not a cop. so, I can break your face into a jigsaw puzzle if I want to...”--Daredevil

    “I am a citizen of the universe. And a gentleman to boot.”--The Doctor

  15. #8805
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    Fellow Christian here. I'm currently reading a chronological Bible and it's really neat to read biblical history in the order, or as close to the order, as it happened. So, it jumps around a bit but it's fun. I'm currently up to just past the life of Solomon.
    At my church we got finished reading "The Story" which takes the Bible and presents it chronologically but only hitting the highlights and broad sweeps. It was pretty good and I'd recommend it if you want to get an overview as well as the detailed version.

    Here is a plan I found for a chronological reading of the Bible. Interesting:

    Day Today's Scripture Reading Description
    Day 1 Genesis 1-3 Creation and Fall
    Day 2 Genesis 12, 15, and 22 Abraham, Isaac
    Day 3 Job 1-3 and 38-42 Story of Job
    Day 4 Exodus 1-5, 12-14, and 20 Moses and the Law
    Day 5 Leviticus 1, 10-11, 16, and 25-26 Instructions
    Day 6 Numbers 3-4, 6, and 11-14 Journey to the Promised Land
    Day 7 Deuteronomy 5-8, 28-31, and 34 Moses' last message to the Israelites
    Day 8 Joshua 1-6 and 23-24 Joshua, Israelites enter the Promised Land
    Day 9 Judges 1-4 and 13-16 Period of the Judges
    Day 10 Ruth 1-4 Story of Ruth
    Day 11 1 Samuel 7-10, 12 King Saul
    Day 12 1 Samuel 15-20, 28, and 31 King Saul
    Day 13 2 Samuel 5-8, 1 Chronicles 15-17 King David
    Day 14 2 Samuel 11-13, 15, and 18 King David
    Day 15 1 Chronicles 21-22, and 28-29 King David
    Day 16 Psalms 1, 8, 19, 23, 51, 100, 103 and 139 Psalms of King David
    Day 17 1 Kings 3, 6-12 King Solomon
    Day 18 2 Chronicles 5-10 King Solomon
    Day 19 Ecclesiastes 1-5 and 12 King Solomon
    Day 20 Song of Songs 1-2, Proverbs 1-3 King Solomon
    Day 21 2 Chronicles 14-16 King Asa
    Day 22 1 Kings 17-19, and 21 Elijah
    Day 23 2 Kings 1-2, 6-7, 11-12 Elijah, Elisha, Kings
    Day 24 2 Chronicles 24-26 Kings
    Day 25 Joel 2, Jonah 1, Amos 3, Micah 1-2 Prophecies
    Day 26 Isaiah 1-2, 6, Hosea 1-4 Prophecies
    Day 27 2 Kings 17-20, 2 Chronicles 29-32 Hezekiah
    Day 28 Isaiah 40 and 52-55 Consolation of Israel
    Day 29 2 Kings 21-23, 2 Chronicles 33-35 Manasseh, Josiah
    Day 30 Nahum 1, Zephaniah 3, Jeremiah 1-5, Habakkuk 1 Prophecies
    Day 31 Ezekiel 1-3, 18, and 33, Lamentations 3, Obadiah Fall of Jerusalem
    Day 32 Daniel 1-2, 4-6 Daniel
    Day 33 Ezra 3, 6-7, Haggai, Zechariah 1-2 Return, rebuilding of Jerusalem
    Day 34 Esther 1-4, 7-8 Story of Esther
    Day 35 Nehemiah 1-2, 4, and 6 Rebuilding the wall
    Day 36 Malachi Last Old Testament prophecies
    Day 37 Matthew 1-2, Luke 1-2 Birth of Jesus
    Day 38 John 1, Mark 1, John 3-4 Early ministry of Jesus
    Day 39 Luke 4-6, Mark 2-4 Teachings of Jesus
    Day 40 Matthew 5-7 Sermon on the Mount
    Day 41 Mark 10, Luke 8-12, Matthew 17-18 More teachings of Jesus
    Day 42 John 13-17 Jesus' upper room discourse
    Day 43 Matthew 26-28, Mark 15-16 Death and resurrection of Jesus
    Day 44 Luke 22-24, John 19-21 Death and resurrection of Jesus
    Day 45 Acts 1-4, 8-10, 12-14 The Church starts, scatters, expands
    Day 46 Galatians 3-6 Paul's warnings about true vs. false religion
    Day 47 James 1-3, Acts 15 Teachings and ministry of James
    Day 48 1 Thessalonians 2 and 4; 2 Thessalonians 3 Paul's letters on adversity and persecution
    Day 49 1 Corinthians 1-2 and 13 Paul's writings on living, loving like Jesus
    Day 50 2 Corinthians 4-5 and 8-9 Paul's writings on authentic Christianity
    Day 51 Romans 5-8 and 12 Paul's letter on Christian doctrine, practice
    Day 52 Philemon; Ephesians 4-6 Paul's writings on practical Christian living
    Day 53 Colossians 1 and 3; Philippians 2 and 4 Paul's writings on growing in Christ
    Day 54 1 Peter 1 and 4-5 Peter's first letter to the Church
    Day 55 1 Timothy 1-3; Titus 2 Paul's teaching on Church leadership
    Day 56 Jude; 2 Peter 1 Jude and Peter's writings on true vs. false religion
    Day 57 2 Timothy 3-4 Paul's example, encouragement to Timothy
    Day 58 Hebrews 10-13 Teachings about living for Jesus Christ
    Day 59 1 John 1-3 John's letter on loving Christ, each other
    Day 60 2 John; 3 John John's postcard letters to friends
    Day 61 Revelation 1-4, 19-22 Jesus Christ's revelation to John
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

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