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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Legion87 View Post
    Some things in the OT were the norms of the time or had specific reasons. Like the fabric thing that gets twisted around.

    Leviticus 19:19, specifically the verse about the mixing of fabrics is mainly about the high priest who was the only one who could wear a garment that could be woven of linen and wool. No one else was allowed to have such a garment. Apparently, this rule was to place some distance between the high priest and the people, with the ultimate purpose of reminding Israel of how holy GODtruly is.
    I see no trace of an exception for high priests in the "no mixed material garnments" command.

  2. #92
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Legion87 View Post
    I didn't come into the thread trying to talk about this stuff. The some person in the second post of the thread decided to make this a debate and derail the thread. I simply stated my opinion, but more people came in with the same mentality. I wouldn't go into the LGBT thread bashing them for who they are. I simply respect them and the thread and stay out and keep my opinions to myself. Why do non religious people feel the need to act crazy and prove God and religion are false when they see a religious thread?
    This isn't a Christians Only So We Can Talk Without Criticism or Argument thread. It's a Bible reading thread.

    Everybody in here, are discussing things relating to or taken from their readings of the Bible.

    But, then, nobody's calling you crazy, are they? That's just you taking shots at people who disagree with you. Good luck with that.
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Legion87 View Post
    I think this should be an appreciation thread. No offense, but it's clear you are someone that wants to stir up trouble here and want to bash religion and religious people. Like someone else said, if thats your opinion create a new thread and discuss it with other like minded individuals. This thread was NOT created for debates to bash religion or try to prove its a fallacy. It's okay if your not religious that your personal opinion/ belief. But don't be a jerk about it and try to bash others who"s opinions and beliefs differ from your own. That's why I respectfully suggest this thread may not be for you.
    Starting a thread by nailing up a "No Dissent Allowed Sign" is fine if that thread is about, you know, Dazzler. It's silly, but, who cares, it's fine. But if you start a topic about the most controversial book in human history (no, not Identity Crisis), maybe expect a wider range of opinions. If you can't handle dissent, don't start controversial threads.

    I haven't bashed anyone. All I've said is that God doesn't exist, the Bible is interesting and well-written fiction, and that the concept of an omnipotent being that matches the description in that fiction existing chills me to the core of my being. Oh, and that religion is an extremely powerful tool, which as any powerful tool has powerful potential for misuse. Those aren't attacks, they're just differing opinions. It's not the same thing.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins View Post
    Starting a thread by nailing up a "No Dissent Allowed Sign" is fine if that thread is about, you know, Dazzler. It's silly, but, who cares, it's fine. But if you start a topic about the most controversial book in human history (no, not Identity Crisis), maybe expect a wider range of opinions. If you can't handle dissent, don't start controversial threads.

    I haven't bashed anyone. All I've said is that God doesn't exist, the Bible is interesting and well-written fiction, and that the concept of an omnipotent being that matches the description in that fiction existing chills me to the core of my being. Oh, and that religion is an extremely powerful tool, which as any powerful tool has powerful potential for misuse. Those aren't attacks, they're just differing opinions. It's not the same thing.
    C'mon now. Saying someone's God doesn't exist and a book they consider holy a work of fiction pretty much qualifies as an attack.

  5. #95
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    C'mon now. Saying someone's God doesn't exist and a book they consider holy a work of fiction pretty much qualifies as an attack.
    It's a god and a book used to justify condemning people to, among other things, prison, disrespect, and eternal damnation.

    In this thread, the Bible is being used to justify disrespecting and condemning homosexuals. How is "you'll burn in an everlasting fiery hell" not an attack, but Shawn not believing in someone's god an attack?
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  6. #96
    Mighty Member Iron_Legion87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    It's a god and a book used to justify condemning people to, among other things, prison, disrespect, and eternal damnation.

    In this thread, the Bible is being used to justify disrespecting and condemning homosexuals. How is "you'll burn in an everlasting fiery hell" not an attack, but Shawn not believing in someone's god an attack?
    Dude NOBODY here is trying to use this thread to attack gays. Some dude posted something about it in the second post of the thread. Myself and I believe Dark Knight shared our opinions resosctfully. Then some others wanted to take it further. The intent of this thread is for Christians or people legitimately interested in discussing the bible. THAT's it!!! This thread isn't mean to bash gays, or condem woman who choice abortion or whatever else you all be spewing out. Like I said non of us are in the gay thread bashing gays or trying to crotize their way of life. Not all religious people are hating on gays. So don't take every religious post as a personal offense against you. It's NOT. People have the right to be religious in the same way someone has the right not to be religious. Respect is a two way street and going around labeling people setting they aren't because of your own personal bias doesn't solve anything.

  7. #97
    Mighty Member Iron_Legion87's Avatar
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    Also nobody here has condemned anyone to hell..

    But anyway, I am not doing the debates. I am here to discuss the bible with people that are interested like Dark Knight intended this thread to be.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    C'mon now. Saying someone's God doesn't exist and a book they consider holy a work of fiction pretty much qualifies as an attack.
    No, it isn't. I don't consider someone saying they believe in God or telling me "God Bless You" an attack on me. I recognize it as a different opinion. By assuming I need to treat the subject with more sensitivity than the other side, you automatically privilege their belief that God exists over my belief that he doesn't.

  9. #99
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    Honestly, it seems like the intent behind this thread is more limiting than an appreciation thread. Because in addition to barring criticism and critical thought like appreciation threads, it also assumes that everything will be discussed through the lens of a literal fundamentalist reading of the work and that no one will look at the Bible as a work of literature or even consider that some of the passages may use metaphor. It's like RLAAMJR started another Storm Appreciation thread, but in this one everyone had to agree with his fan theory that Storm isn't black before they could post.

  10. #100
    Shou-Lao The Bitch Dragon Iron Fist's Avatar
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    Something that needs saying is that the only place the bible discusses homosexuality is in the same section that says it's okay to kill slaves, that you should kill people for wearing 2 different fabrics, should kill people who eat pork and shellfish and that you can have your children killed by the local elders for being a little shit.

    So homosexuality has very little weight in terms of sins because all those other things are still sins in biblical continuity but the new testament says its no one's place to judge others for sinning because everyone does it. So I highly doubt real christians blink twice at gay marriage or abortion because they have the same weight in terms of sin as wearing denim and leather together in one outfit (i do love that God was the original fashion police) or as eating shellfish.

    So any aversions to homosexuality today are based on people's own hatred not the bible itself. And those who cite the bible are just proving they haven't read the whole thing and that they're an idiot.

    And I say all this as an atheist.

    Also in one of the banned gospels of the bible, teen Jesus uses his powers to do all kinds of rad shit, why is no one discussing that?
    Last edited by Iron Fist; 09-25-2015 at 10:17 AM.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    it's man made and man adapted (hence the hate in it against various sexualities, other races, etc - man made).
    The Bible isn't presented as a pick and choose. As mentioned in books like Mark, James 2, and Hebrews, there isn't one part of the Bible to be accepted while others rejected. It doesn't matter if it was Luke or Jesus. You are absolutely free to read and favor or dislike whatever you want, I don't think anyone wants to stop you if they even could, but this is the line followed by those who believe. It's not a lukewarm subject.


    May I suggest the OP request the moderators make this an appreciation thread for Bible reading and Christians, that gives the thread some what more protection on what it's intended for.
    It's not even for protection of faith (which is sad, right? Why can't this be a safe discussion for those who feel harassed by such claims? If someone isn't even considering changing their position, why bother insulting beliefs?) as it is just off topic. If someone doesn't read the Bible, there's no point in persisting to debate things outside of the scope of the OP.

    If one wants to feel right or justified, go ahead. Plenty in this world will give you the satisfaction of feeling right, if that's just what they want. But no one here is going to give up faith just because of some disparaging remarks, so why make them? Debate is not really winning anyone in any direction.


    In truth, you don't. You cannot love someone if you think they are "less worthy" of marriage; say you have some affection for them, fine (but not love; that's simply a lie). You're not spewing hate, agreed. And everyone is entitled to their opinions, but please don't delude yourself into thinking you love someone, when you look down upon how they were born. At-least own your prejudice.
    You mentioned hate spoken in the Bible before, can you please quote what this is, in context? I work in college campus ministry, and when I encounter someone who mentions hate, I ask them to point out what exactly it is to which they refer. They typically struggle, with the intention of picking out a single line. But that's not in context, and it makes it tough for someone who reads diligently to help them cope with what is said.

    On love: it's split by conviction. If you don't believe, there is no heaven or hell. There is no judgment, so no conflict. We are not called to change others. I wouldn't dream of suspecting I can change my gay friends. John 6 mentions that we are saved through Jesus, not Will Smith, not Dennis Leary, not me. The people I eat with, play with, share with, help move, consult for help, discuss comics with; if they don't have the conviction, I can't create it for them. I can only show them love, as per my instructions. How can someone say we don't love each other without knowing us? Sounds judgmental.

    As for looking down on them, I am well aware of the log in my eye. I have no problem admitting that people can be better than me, but since I have God I don't dwell on that. People struggle with separating sin from sinner. I'm a sinner and I'll sin again in my life, but I don't look down on myself or judge others because they are as imperfect as myself, at least. Lying is sinful, I acknowledge my conviction and I repent. I ask God to show me what He intends, which no one else can tell me.

    Marriage in the bible is defined as being between a man and a woman. Any man or any woman is worthy of marriage, but that's the definition. In the US it's legal for same sexes to marry. There's nothing we can do, except show people that we love them despite our convictions (our personal guide as believers). But does loving you have to mean I approve of everything you do? Of course not. If you hate nose rings, do you not love your child if they get one? That's not for someone else to say.

    In short, I think Romans 14 would be awesome to read. I'd love to discuss it.
    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    t am I going too far in presuming you have a similar disrespect, then, for homosexual (who isn't hurting anyone)?
    You are a person, not an action. You can totally respect a gang member, and not like gang activities because it's not the same. And the point is that in the grand scheme of things, our judgment doesn't matter. If it does, it's a mark against us, because the New Testament does not call for condemnation.

    And, I trust, of course, that you follow and judge just as harshly based on all of Leviticus or all of Paul's rambling condemnations, and don't just stick to homosexuality. No mixed fibers. No shellfish. Eating shellfish is like being a drug dealer, right?
    You're pretty mixed up here. Again, point out what it is you're actually mentioning. If you're saying Paul says to not eat shellfish, I have to wonder if you actually read his letters, or if you're playing parrot. This goes for several of your posts mentioning Paul.

    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    Why should you and your beliefs be safe from criticism or condemnation, when you're using this very thread to condemn others and to criticize their beliefs?
    This thread essentially ascribes to belief. You cannot be so much as disagreed with unless you come here to go against what is accepted. And condemned, never. I did a search for hell and this thread, and I can't say I found condemnation. No one is threatening you, so I don't understand entering to then go on the defensive.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins View Post
    No, it isn't. I don't consider someone saying they believe in God or telling me "God Bless You" an attack on me. I recognize it as a different opinion. By assuming I need to treat the subject with more sensitivity than the other side, you automatically privilege their belief that God exists over my belief that he doesn't.
    Hmmm...well most believers would consider comments like that as an attack as would probably most people who say them. The thing is there are clearly people here who get offended and react as if it's a personal attack when someone says they believe in a God/religion etc.

    Going in and telling people their religion is a fairytale and then telling them they shouldn't be offended really isn't a good way promote discussion.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    It's a god and a book used to justify condemning people to, among other things, prison, disrespect, and eternal damnation.

    In this thread, the Bible is being used to justify disrespecting and condemning homosexuals. How is "you'll burn in an everlasting fiery hell" not an attack, but Shawn not believing in someone's god an attack?

    I might have to read the thread again but haven't seen anyone here bash homosexuals. The attacks seem to be coming from the other direction, as for any God/religion being used for the wrong purposes...well you can pretty much say that about anything in this world.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins View Post
    Honestly, it seems like the intent behind this thread is more limiting than an appreciation thread. Because in addition to barring criticism and critical thought like appreciation threads, it also assumes that everything will be discussed through the lens of a literal fundamentalist reading of the work and that no one will look at the Bible as a work of literature or even consider that some of the passages may use metaphor. It's like RLAAMJR started another Storm Appreciation thread, but in this one everyone had to agree with his fan theory that Storm isn't black before they could post.
    Yeah well Shawn, and not accusing you, but there's threads in other parts of this forum, especially on certain subjects, that are just people gathering together to agree with each other, and when people interject something differing the reception isn't always welcome. If this thread is going to be called out in being bias, then there should be some other people on this forum willing to admit the same.

  15. #105
    Mighty Member Iron_Legion87's Avatar
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    Let's get the thread back on topic.

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