Do You Find Yourself Hating The Avengers, Post-AvX?

[sureshot]

Do I think the Avengers were wrong and irresponsible in how they handled the events of AvX? Yes. Do I hate them? No.

AvX had its share of problem, but I don't think it had anything to do with the Avengers being unlikable. I think it had more to do with poor storytelling and an unrefined narrative. I think the biggest problem is that the Avengers basically provoked the Phoenix Five into the conflict. They threw the first punch. They were the aggressors. Not only that, they were the reason the Phoenix Force ended up in the Phoenix Five to begin with. And when two of them, Emma Frost and Namor, went rogue and attacked Wakanda, the Avengers blamed Cyclops. Namor was working with Black Panther shortly after as though nothing had happened. Marvel has some of the most talented writers in the business working for them. They have no excuses for leaving out those sorts of details.

And for that reason, I really can't hate the Avengers that much. Like any team of characters, they can be victims of poor writing.

Agreed and seconded on all points. Mind you it's also not helped with the art sometimes. Almost every time we see them interacting with another group. They get drawn like they have no personality. At parade attention at all times. For lack of a better description like they have a stick up their behinds. It used to be that one would see the Avengers acting like real people cracking a joke etc. Now Marvel has them in "must be serious looking at all times" mode no matter the situation imo.

[CraigTheCylon]

I don't hate characters because of bad stories, I hate writers because of bad stories. When I hate characters, it's because of trends, i.e. they've been part of so many bad stories the stink starts to stick.

Beyond that, no. I honestly prefer the Avengers to the X-Men most days. With due respect to everyone who cares about the X-Mens' status as a metaphor for segregation/abuse based on race/sexuality/otherness, that's the kind of thing that makes a book 'interesting' but not necessarily 'enjoyable'. Also, the majority of X-Men runs don't take said metaphor and use it for anything. If they're at "people are hurting us because we're different!" in #1, they'll still be at "people are hurting us because we're different!" in #5-cocking-thousand. The lack of a single overriding theme beyond 'team' lets the Avengers change its form and be whatever it wants on a more regular basis. Meanwhile in X-ville, we're still all chasing Claremont like that ship hasn't sailed decades ago.

On a more micro level, I don't actually like Claremont's work or any of his trends. Plus most of the 'classic' X-Men are duds to me personality-wise, with the only characters I actually gravitate to being the ones generally segregated to satellite books. By comparison, I'm at least a little fond of most of the 'classic' Avengers (except Hawkeye), and...wait, who's the equivalent of Claremont for them? Busiek? Because I ****ing LOVED Busiek's run. As should all right-thinking people.

P.S. Echo all of Fokken's sentiments. AvX as a concept - or really ANYONE GOOD vs X-Men - does not work because it's by necessity a story where a bunch of good guys pick on a minority.

[xhx23x]

I am mostly indifferent to them now. But AvX is hardly the problem, they were on the track of boring long before that. AvX just made them all annoying. But they did so with some X-Men as well.

[Vegeta]

I don't hate the individual characters, but I hate how the writers depict them nowadays. The Avengers are nothing more than the strong arm of the government. SHIELD's "goon squad" if you will. The current Marvel crop has apparently never read any Captain America as written by Stan Lee, Mark Waid or Mark Gruenwald. Captain America should not be a bully, Cap stands up against bullies. It's amazing how they can get the character's personality so right in the movies and so wrong in the current source material.

So I don't even bother with the current Avenger books anymore, and I no longer enjoy their guest appearances in other titles I read.

[AcesX1X]

collectively? yes. i think they are corrupted and act more like goons than anything. individually, it depend

[Agent Z]

Do I think the Avengers were wrong and irresponsible in how they handled the events of AvX? Yes. Do I hate them? No.

AvX had its share of problem, but I don't think it had anything to do with the Avengers being unlikable. I think it had more to do with poor storytelling and an unrefined narrative. I think the biggest problem is that the Avengers basically provoked the Phoenix Five into the conflict. They threw the first punch. They were the aggressors. Not only that, they were the reason the Phoenix Force ended up in the Phoenix Five to begin with. And when two of them, Emma Frost and Namor, went rogue and attacked Wakanda, the Avengers blamed Cyclops. Namor was working with Black Panther shortly after as though nothing had happened. Marvel has some of the most talented writers in the business working for them. They have no excuses for leaving out those sorts of details.

And for that reason, I really can't hate the Avengers that much. Like any team of characters, they can be victims of poor writing.

Pretty much my thoughts. My ire is with the editors and writers not the characters who are at their mercy.

[MentalManipulator]

I never cared much about the Avengers…but I hate the status quo nowadays where they have all those cartoons, games and toys being lesser interesting characters

[Rising7]

I don't hate them, but I don't put them on the pedestal the way I may have before. Like shortly after Dark Reign when Cap mentors Cyclops in the Savage Land, I valued that interaction as the Avengers leader acknowledging the X-Men's efforts. Now I'm more receptive to narratives like Gillen's Extinction team considering themselves the best super team.

I also interpret the X-Men's place in the Marvel universe differently, with more of a sense that the X-Men embody the universe enough for me on their own.

[Shambles]

Avengers Vs. X-Men.

Me, personally, I don't hate the Avengers.
I love them, in fact -- when they're not interacting with the X-Men, y'know?
When they're not, they're fun and heroic and bold. When they do get involved with the X-Men, its like their brains rewire and they become total idiots.


I still feel very passionately that AvX WOULD HAVE worked and would have worked REALLY well, if it hadn't been such a straight forward US vs THEM situation.
All the paranoia and doubt was easily and readily planted since House of M to legitimize those feelings within the X-Men, but I wish wish WISH that they'd have joined together to fight a COMMON foe rather than one of their own -- who grew mad with power while possessed by a cosmic entity.

The REAL enemy should have been the SHI'AR.
THEY should have been the ones tracking the Phoenix. THEY should have been the ones threatening Earth and insisting on "taking" Hope. Cable and Rachel should have been Hope's advisers -- not Spiderman.
The Avengers should have been AVENGERS and been PROTECTING the X-Men. Then SWORD and Agent Brand could have been the ones to make the unfortunate hard choices, leading to further doubt/suspect the Avengers' motives, thus leading to the battle lines being drawn but in the end they would all come together to fend off the Shi'Ar and "release" the Phoenix.

Alas.... it was just grudge match city.
But no....I don't hate the Avengers. I love the Avengers. Just not when they interact with my X-family. Then it gets personal.

Avengers and X-Men vs the Shi'ar empire sounds like a great idea for an event

[Agent Z]

Avengers and X-Men vs the Shi'ar empire sounds like a great idea for an event

I'm pretty sure I read a fanfic that used that idea in fact.

[AcesX1X]

as a group, i hate them with the very core of my being.

they embody and represent the very worst parts of power abuse and hubris.

if it were up to me, the entire organization would be razed from the ground up. individual characters would then be rehabilitated and taught how to serve the community again, rather than expecting the community to serve them....and beating up on them or harassing when that doesn't happen.

[KaleRylan]

Do I think the Avengers were wrong and irresponsible in how they handled the events of AvX? Yes. Do I hate them? No.

AvX had its share of problem, but I don't think it had anything to do with the Avengers being unlikable. I think it had more to do with poor storytelling and an unrefined narrative. I think the biggest problem is that the Avengers basically provoked the Phoenix Five into the conflict. They threw the first punch. They were the aggressors. Not only that, they were the reason the Phoenix Force ended up in the Phoenix Five to begin with. And when two of them, Emma Frost and Namor, went rogue and attacked Wakanda, the Avengers blamed Cyclops. Namor was working with Black Panther shortly after as though nothing had happened. Marvel has some of the most talented writers in the business working for them. They have no excuses for leaving out those sorts of details.

And for that reason, I really can't hate the Avengers that much. Like any team of characters, they can be victims of poor writing.

This basically sums it up. That was a story-crafting problem, pure and simple. Everyone in the story carried an idiot ball for most of the plot, with the Avengers carrying a slightly larger one.

[KaleRylan]

Avengers and X-Men vs the Shi'ar empire sounds like a great idea for an event

Unfortunately, under Hickman the Avengers and the Shi'ar are buddy-buddy, to the point that the Shi'ar call the Avengers when they need help with wars (not talking about Infinity, it was some random issue early on). This is despite the fact that the Shi'ar are a kind of horrible group of people that are generally AT BEST depicted as well-intentioned extremists and at worst are a fairly brutal empire.

[Arya]

I didn't really like the Avengers much before even though there were characters I did. After AvX it made me dislike Cap and Tony but then I didn't like them before and honestly don't care much about them now. Now I like the Avengers fine I do see them as victims of AvX just like the X-men.

[Fokken]

I'm pretty sure I read a fanfic that used that idea in fact.

Oh yeah you did! antiochene wrote it.
I can't say I found EVERY part of it on point but the majority was HAWT.
I think it might have jumped the shark a touch after the Phoenix split into the Summers clan but yeah, again, that general idea is BOSS AS FUUUUUUH