You Don't Know Jack - Jack Monroe (Nomad) Appreciation

[Nomads1]

Think we'll ever know what became of "Bucky"?

Peace

[Adam-X]

So Cap still does not know the deal between Nomad and Winter Soldier? If not, why couldn't this be shoehorned in Original Sin?

Well, Original Sin was a mess... but yes, you'd think that they'd put that part of it in there... since Cap has a long history with Sidekicks - and the guy who he let wear the Captain America mantle briefly, killed one of his side kicks...

As far as Cap being okay with what Winter Soldier did... typically in comics mind control gets you a free pass eventually. Not necessarily overnight... but sooner or later it works out that way. So I can buy that.
But as far as Nomad coming back... the way comics works, it's probably inevtiable. He'll probably be resurrected to be some sort of villain for Bucky. wanting revenge or whatever. I think he'll get the Jason Todd treatment to an extent.

If Steve doesn't know he'd be OK with it because he would understand that bucky wasn't himself when it happened.

So being brainwashed would excuse murder in Cap's eyes? I don't know. Cap seems like the up and up, follow the law, kind of guy. I see it more of a, "I understand you were brainwashed, but you committed murder... perhaps we can get a lenient charge." Rather than, "You were brain washed? Ah, okay! Well, here, you can be Captain America for awhile!"

I recently read THE WINTER SOILDER, and man, poor Jack. All he wanted to do was do something good before dying, and in reality it was just his mind playing tricks on him.

Yeah, and that was post all the cool stuff Fabian had done with him to restore him.

Think we'll ever know what became of "Bucky"?

Peace

What do you mean?

[berserkerclaw]

I just read the trial of Captain America trade. Steve does know Bucky killed Jack. He also knows he was mind controlled as winter soldier. So Steve doesn't hold it against him.

[Tony Stark]

First off I just want to give huge props and thanks to Adam-X for making this tread. One of my all time favorite characters easily. I cried when my cousin bought me a copy of the issue were Winter Soldier kills him. It brought tears to my eyes. It was basically NOMAD THE END. It was sad to see how far he had fallen. I still have the books and LOVED Dead Man's Hands as it had 3 characters I love and grew up reading. I wish they would bring him back. He such a severely underrated character and why I love Fabian Niceaza as a writer.

[LordMikel]

I always thought the Scourge storyline was poorly written and advertised. Only because I wasn't reading Thunderbolts at the time but happened to read something that said, "Find out in Thunderbolts 75 if Jack Monroe is really Scourge. And I was thinking, "If you had told me that sooner, I might've been picking up the book for that reason.

But yes, him being dead like that is a waste of a good character.

[phantom1592]

So being brainwashed would excuse murder in Cap's eyes? I don't know. Cap seems like the up and up, follow the law, kind of guy. I see it more of a, "I understand you were brainwashed, but you committed murder... perhaps we can get a lenient charge." Rather than, "You were brain washed? Ah, okay! Well, here, you can be Captain America for awhile!"

Problem is EVERYONE's been mind controlled at one point or another. They've all done things that they shouldn't have.. or were illegal. The general hero mentality is to blame the puppet master NOT the puppet. So yeah, I could see him forgiving Bucky and holding a massive grudge against whoever controlled him.



THAT said... WAS he controlled at the time!?!? That was a weird story at the time too... They were trying to keep things vague and mysterious over who the winter soldier was... But I THOUGHT the idea was that Jack was killed because he used to be a 'Bucky' and tarnished the name? Kind of like when Jason Todd came back and immediately put Tim Drake in the crosshairs.

As they were ALSO turning bucky from good hearted sidekick to cold blooded black ops wetwork agent WHILE he was Cap's partner... I always got the feeling that his memories were maybe messed with... but he was starting to wake up and didn't like the world he was in, and took revenge.

Granted... I don't even remember WHO was controlling him at that point (skull??) but systematically killing off Ex-buckies that were so far off the grid nobody would ever know is pretty poor plan for anyone not emotionally involved....

Another reason I hated that death. It just didn't serve a purpose.

[Nomads1]

What do you mean?

The Bucky baby that Nomad used to carry around. I remember he had to give her up at the end of his series.

Peace

[Nomads1]

So being brainwashed would excuse murder in Cap's eyes? I don't know. Cap seems like the up and up, follow the law, kind of guy. I see it more of a, "I understand you were brainwashed, but you committed murder... perhaps we can get a lenient charge." Rather than, "You were brain washed? Ah, okay! Well, here, you can be Captain America for awhile!"

Well, that excuse has always worked so well for Wolverine over the years. That and his berserker furies. It's never "he kills because he is an amoral SOB who enjoys violence a bit too much." No, he's a heroic samurai who kills so that other don't have to... Marvel has theis skewered perception of heroism.

Peace

[Master Man]

The reason Monroe was killed is because Lukin (who was controlling Bucky) was gonna use him as a scapegoat for the murder of Red Skull and the bombing in Philadelphia. I don't know why Monroe specifically, I guess Lukin thought it would be funny to use one former Cap sidekick as a scapegoat for another former Cap sidekick.

Also, let's not forget that an innocent ice-cream man was saved that night.

[PaxHouse]

The Bucky baby that Nomad used to carry around. I remember he had to give her up at the end of his series.

Peace

And prior to Jack's unfortunate demise, he had a chance to see her with her adopted family, under the name of Julia Winters; within the same issue where he was killed by Bucky/Winter Soldier.

[Nomads1]

And prior to Jack's unfortunate demise, he had a chance to see her with her adopted family, under the name of Julia Winters; within the same issue where he was killed by Bucky/Winter Soldier.

I actually wanted to see more. You think she'll ever pop up in stories that show the future? Will she take up an identity and become a super-hero once she grows up? Does she know what Jack did for her? Did it shape her life in any way? Stuff like that.

Peace

[Adam-X]

First off I just want to give huge props and thanks to Adam-X for making this tread. One of my all time favorite characters easily. I cried when my cousin bought me a copy of the issue were Winter Soldier kills him. It brought tears to my eyes. It was basically NOMAD THE END. It was sad to see how far he had fallen. I still have the books and LOVED Dead Man's Hands as it had 3 characters I love and grew up reading. I wish they would bring him back. He such a severely underrated character and why I love Fabian Niceaza as a writer.

Always glad to hear that there's other Jack Monroe/Nomad fans out there! Fabian is a severely under used and under appreciated writer.

And so frequently disrespected, in what other writers will do with characters Fabian has built up.

I always thought the Scourge storyline was poorly written and advertised. Only because I wasn't reading Thunderbolts at the time but happened to read something that said, "Find out in Thunderbolts 75 if Jack Monroe is really Scourge. And I was thinking, "If you had told me that sooner, I might've been picking up the book for that reason.

But yes, him being dead like that is a waste of a good character.

Ah! See, I was already collecting THUNDERBOLTS from the beginning - and then was happy to hear when Fabian took it over (as a huge fan of his anyway!)... Only time I dropped Thunderbolts was when they turned it into a Wrestling Book. Totally not even kidding.

They turned Thunderbolts into Fight Club of Marvel. They booted Fabian to do it too. And eventually went back and brought Fabian back.

Problem is EVERYONE's been mind controlled at one point or another. They've all done things that they shouldn't have.. or were illegal. The general hero mentality is to blame the puppet master NOT the puppet. So yeah, I could see him forgiving Bucky and holding a massive grudge against whoever controlled him.

That is, I suppose true. I know I have forgiven characters that were brainwashed and did things (such as Havok)... I guess I was more miffed because they killed a character I was personally interested in!

Another reason I hated that death. It just didn't serve a purpose.

Agreed. Other than to remove a potential "Bucky" character from being in the Marvel Universe. It was a way of saying, the original Bucky is the ONLY Bucky left. (Who we learn is Winter Soldier).

The reason Monroe was killed is because Lukin (who was controlling Bucky) was gonna use him as a scapegoat for the murder of Red Skull and the bombing in Philadelphia. I don't know why Monroe specifically, I guess Lukin thought it would be funny to use one former Cap sidekick as a scapegoat for another former Cap sidekick.

But it doesn't make sense why he'd kill Monroe?

I actually wanted to see more. You think she'll ever pop up in stories that show the future? Will she take up an identity and become a super-hero once she grows up? Does she know what Jack did for her? Did it shape her life in any way? Stuff like that.
Peace

Wasn't there an alternate version of a female Bucky who was a young kid? Imagine if that was the same kid! (I don't think it was).

[phantom1592]

Well, that excuse has always worked so well for Wolverine over the years. That and his berserker furies. It's never "he kills because he is an amoral SOB who enjoys violence a bit too much." No, he's a heroic samurai who kills so that other don't have to... Marvel has theis skewered perception of heroism.

Peace

I absolutely HATED the New Avengers when it started and they drafted Wolverine to 'do what they couldn't'.... It was the stupidest out of character thing I had ever read. Cap once disbanded the Avengers because they voted to kill during a Kree war... but it's ok to have wolverine as the Avengers Wet works division?!?!? CAPTAIN AMERICA?!?!


The only dumber thing I've ever seen them do.... is a picture of the new Avengers book led by Steve Rogers... with Deadpool.

/weeps for the loss of 'Good Guys'....

[Adam-X]

I absolutely HATED the New Avengers when it started and they drafted Wolverine to 'do what they couldn't'.... It was the stupidest out of character thing I had ever read. Cap once disbanded the Avengers because they voted to kill during a Kree war... but it's ok to have wolverine as the Avengers Wet works division?!?!? CAPTAIN AMERICA?!?!
The only dumber thing I've ever seen them do.... is a picture of the new Avengers book led by Steve Rogers... with Deadpool.
/weeps for the loss of 'Good Guys'....

Weeps for the loss of Good Guys... and Marvel in general.

[Nomads1]

I absolutely HATED the New Avengers when it started and they drafted Wolverine to 'do what they couldn't'.... It was the stupidest out of character thing I had ever read. Cap once disbanded the Avengers because they voted to kill during a Kree war... but it's ok to have wolverine as the Avengers Wet works division?!?!? CAPTAIN AMERICA?!?!


The only dumber thing I've ever seen them do.... is a picture of the new Avengers book led by Steve Rogers... with Deadpool.

/weeps for the loss of 'Good Guys'....

Agreed 100%. And who chose to bring in Wolverine so that he could do what they "couldn't" (or wouldn't) do? Veteran WWII super-soldier Captain America and former weapons maker Iron Man (who also happened to be the Avenger that led his teammates to kill the Supreme Inteligence during said war with the Kree). Yeah, two guys that I'm sure would be squimish about doing what needed to be done. I better cut it short here. This subject really is a sore spot with my interior fanboy .

Peace