What if Bendis and other writers were trying to warm us all along ?.

[Arya]

Was I wrong to include in the "people who didn't enjoy Bendis' run" category? Because your comments suggest otherwise.

Trolling is saying something with the deliberate aim of winding people up. Just because some people were wound up by Bendis' run, doesn't mean he set out to wind them up. I have seen no evidence that anything written by Bendis was done with the intention of annoying a small section of fans. Instead, is it not just a teensy bit more likely that Bendis was writing to please the thousands who continue to buy his books? Those who don't subsequently come on internet forums to moan, at tedious length, about how Bendis' work is not merely something they dislike (no, there can be no possibility of subjectivity!), but rather a personal affront to every. single. X-fan. (except those inconsequential not-true X-fans who happen to have quite enjoyed his run, warts and all). Does Bendis care about those fans who are outraged by his work? Quite possibly not, although I'd submit that it's a rare writer who doesn't care about negative criticism one bit.

So, in other words, your personal opinion - nor the personal opinions of any of the other people who think Bendis hates the X-men or X-fans - was not even under consideration while Bendis was writing the books. He wrote what he thought, rightly or wrongly, would make for a good story. The fact that some people disagreed and have become very upset about the fact someone would dare write a comic they don't personally enjoy, was not an intentional outcome, and thus it was not trolling - though given the petulance of many comic fans you might say it was an inevitable side effect.



Ha it is all about me, apparently, and yet you are the one claiming those who disagree with you are myopic. Note how I have only contested those points you have made which are fallacious - the idea that art can be pointless, the idea that characters haven't developed at all - I never said Bendis' run was good or that you were wrong to dislike it. You, on the other hand, insist that Bendis "really didn't care about the franchise as a whole", and though this is your (unprovable and incredible) opinion, you insult anyone who begs to differ.

That's funny considering I am talking about your view and not you as a person. You or I aren't our perspectives or did that change all of a sudden. I haven't insulted anyone and if you feel insulted by what I said I am sorry for that.

I will say this people like cheap entertainment. They like the Kardasians... They are free to do so. His writing fits in the same vein as a Chuck Austen, it's watered down and poorly structured. I am saying that his writing wasn't great and that that last arc did troll fans regardless of his intentions to do so. You disagreed, that's fine. People disagree all the time. In what way have I insulted all the fans that enjoyed it?

Pointing out how he ended that last arc was trollish to Scott fans, to the very idea of the X-men and to good writing. It was lazy and for a man of Bendis talent, skill and creativity ridiculous. All Fans deserve better than that. Bendis has talent but just like Fraction or Austin wasn't the right fit for the X-men. I wish him well on Iron man.

Here's the difference between me and you. You are focusing on your enjoyment and mistaking my displeasure of the book and conflating that with the perspectives of other people that have made their points clear. I genuinely enjoy Iceman being gay despite many Iceman fans feeling annoyed that his relationships with women were ignored from their perspective. I don't hate Scott but I am not a huge fan either and its clear that a lot of his fans feel like Bendis did him a disservice.... The only fan groups that seem to happy with his work are Magik fans and Tean fans. Most other fans on tumbler.... Aren't as happy with it. You are focused on your perspective and the views of others that agree with you. I am not but I really haven't posted that much about why I don't like it.

[shgs]

I am saying that his writing wasn't great and that that last arc did troll fans regardless of his intentions to do so.

See there you just contradicted yourself in a single sentence. You can't troll unintentionally, because trolling is deliberate provocation.

Why are you so intent on projecting wrongdoing (laziness, trolling, etc.) onto Bendis for writing a lacklustre run? Why must a writer be demonized for simply not excelling? Is it not possible for a writer to simply produce something you don't like?

You seem to have confused my objection to the substance of your criticism for an impassioned endorsement of Bendis' run. Personally, I thought there were a lot of good ideas poorly executed, and a few terrible ideas, but enough enjoyable character moments that overall my reading experience was positive. All of that is moot, however, because I am not arguing that you should have enjoyed Bendis' run.

I am arguing that calling a story pointless is ludicrous.
I am arguing that just because you or anyone else didn't like a story, doesn't mean the author set out with the intention to annoy you.
I am arguing that sometimes writers produce something you don't enjoy, and its not because they are lazy, or setting out to troll you, or doing you a disservice, or in anyway committing some kind of offence of wrongdoing - they simply don't find that alchemical sweet spot that happens to tickle your personal pleasure buttons.

Finally, give me a break with that 'myopic isn't an insult because I was talking about you views not you' rubbish. That's like saying 'I didn't say you were ugly, I said your face was ugly'.

[Arya]

See there you just contradicted yourself in a single sentence. You can't troll unintentionally, because trolling is deliberate provocation.

Why are you so intent on projecting wrongdoing (laziness, trolling, etc.) onto Bendis for writing a lacklustre run? Why must a writer be demonized for simply not excelling? Is it not possible for a writer to simply produce something you don't like?

You seem to have confused my objection to the substance of your criticism for an impassioned endorsement of Bendis' run. Personally, I thought there were a lot of good ideas poorly executed, and a few terrible ideas, but enough enjoyable character moments that overall my reading experience was positive. All of that is moot, however, because I am not arguing that you should have enjoyed Bendis' run.

I am arguing that calling a story pointless is ludicrous.
I am arguing that just because you or anyone else didn't like a story, doesn't mean the author set out with the intention to annoy you.
I am arguing that sometimes writers produce something you don't enjoy, and its not because they are lazy, or setting out to troll you, or doing you a disservice, or in anyway committing some kind of offence of wrongdoing - they simply don't find that alchemical sweet spot that happens to tickle your personal pleasure buttons.

Finally, give me a break with that 'myopic isn't an insult because I was talking about you views not you' rubbish. That's like saying 'I didn't say you were ugly, I said your face was ugly'.

No it isn't because I never attacked you. I get you liked it. Have fun with that. You don't interpret it as trolling. I get that, why would you you like it. But when an author trolls the characters in the story which bendis did quite a bit it's not too much for fans of those characters to feel trolled. Trolling doesn't have to be direct for it to happen. Bendis clearly has an objective to deconstruct the X-men and that's what he did.