Juggernaut vs Superman

[Siriel]

Dead, except for that whole stupid thing about younger versions of the X-Men running around.

[Anarchist]

Though she doesn't seem to be dead for real, she still lingers around in her White Phoenix of the Crown-Form, she just doesn't seem to think it's the right time for her to come back from the White Hot Room yet.

[Cody]

Though she doesn't seem to be dead for real, she still lingers around in her White Phoenix of the Crown-Form, she just doesn't seem to think it's the right time for her to come back from the White Hot Room yet.

White Phoenix? Wut?

[Anarchist]

There are 3 forms


The green one is the regular Phoenix-Form, it is most of the time not that powerful, standart Flying Brick stuff.
The red one is the unhinged Dark Phoenix Form, it brings crazyness and violence with itself, and the power to annihilate entire star systems or more.
The last one is called White Phoenix of the Crown, so far only Jean Grey and Hope have mastered it. It is by far the most powerful form (Jean was holding an entire universe in her palms with it) while being peaceful and controled at the same time.

[Cody]

There are 3 forms


The green one is the regular Phoenix-Form, it is most of the time not that powerful, standart Flying Brick stuff.
The red one is the unhinged Dark Phoenix Form, it brings crazyness and violence with itself, and the power to annihilate entire star systems or more.
The last one is called White Phoenix of the Crown, so far only Jean Grey and Hope have mastered it. It is by far the most powerful form (Jean was holding an entire universe in her palms with it) while being peaceful and controled at the same time.

This is confusing...if she is "White Phoenix", that would mean the Phoenix Force is still within her...so what was up with the whole phoenix force dilemma not too long ago? When Cyclops and the like were possessed by a part of the Phoenix force or w/e?

And I always thought the Phoenix Force was only around the same level as Galactus. But by the sounds of it when it turns...."white" or w/e it gets stupidly stronger? Strong enough to hold a universe in the palm of it's hand?

Wtf is going on in Marvel?

[Anarchist]

Basically, what exactly the relationship between Jean and the Phoenix is, writer's can't get a consensus on.
Some think that they are one and the same, some think she is just the host with the strongest connection to it.

But one way or the other, she is the one who can draw most of the power out of it.

And yeah, Full Power Dark Phoenix Cyclops even met WP Jean in the White Hot Room. Confusing indeed.

[Siriel]

Though she doesn't seem to be dead for real, she still lingers around in her White Phoenix of the Crown-Form, she just doesn't seem to think it's the right time for her to come back from the White Hot Room yet.

Marvel Editor stated her to be dead in 2010.

[Anarchist]

And in 2012 (AvX) Scott met her in the White Hot Room

[Siriel]

And in 2012 (AvX) Scott met her in the White Hot Room

Ah, but Scott is insane. Checkmate.

[Siriel]

And I always thought the Phoenix Force was only around the same level as Galactus. But by the sounds of it when it turns...."white" or w/e it gets stupidly stronger? Strong enough to hold a universe in the palm of it's hand?

The holding stuff in your hand is a fancy representation of heightened consciousness. Phoenix Five members held the Earth in their hands and weren't particularly planet busters/warpers.

[Anarchist]

Meh, two of the Phoenix Five even while split up beat the living shit out of Gladiator, and only grew stronger from that point on.

Scott in his fully powered Form held the entire Galaxy in his palms and only lost because Jean told him to.

[Siriel]

Scott in his fully powered Form held the entire Galaxy in his palms and only lost because Jean told him to.

Outside of the representation that isn't actually physical, what exactly shows that level of power?

Because Scott and Emma's minds were also shown to be casually discussing over dinner while losing a fight to the gathered heroes. You can't exactly take it straightforwardly.

[Siriel]

To add; during the extremely silly Sinister storyline of that arc, the Phoenix Five were shown to hold his country in their hands.

They proceeded to...spectacularly get their asses kicked and be totally unaware of what was taking them out one by one (despite it happening in the place they were shown to be holding) and only got out due to Sinister underestimating the Phoenix and gloating instead of just killing them.

[Anarchist]

AFAIR they were losing because of Xavier's mind-attacks.
The physical attacks didn't really DO anything to them other then them being like 'Yeah, that happened'.
For example here, in the panel before that Thor blats Scott down with a lightning and Scott responds with this

and gets up again without being hurt whatsoever
That was the reason Cyke took the entire force from Emma, because Xavier was still able to subdue him in his half-phoenixed form.
In the fully phoenix'ed form, the only thing that temporarily hurt him was the combined assault of Wanda and Hope, because apparently Chaos Magic and Kun Lun stuff were the new weakness of the PF.
But after a short assault, he lol-noped even that

And was only stoped after the afromentioned encoutner with Jean, who convinced him to stop

To add; during the extremely silly Sinister storyline of that arc, the Phoenix Five were shown to hold his country in their hands.

They proceeded to...spectacularly get their asses kicked and be totally unaware of what was taking them out one by one (despite it happening in the place they were shown to be holding) and only got out due to Sinister underestimating the Phoenix and gloating instead of just killing them.

Given how good Sinister's prep feats are, I'm willing to buy that.
But anyway, low showings are nothing special, in the P5's case it was the extremely laughable encounter with Spider-Man.

The high showings were still in the majority.

[Siriel]

Looking at it I realize the planet buster statement was outright misleading, I apologize for that. I'm at uni so I make these posts in a hurry.

I definitely think they were above Thor and the likes, that's not really arguable given their feats of...well, repeatedly beating up Thor.

However, nothing really shows the depiction of them holding something to be literal, or to be something they can actually do, or even of them having awareness of everything in what they're holding (indeed, the Sinister example shows the direct opposite). They never do anything near the scale of holding a galaxy; they never even get beyond planetary level. (Beating up Thor and Gladiator is certainly at that level.)
Even when Scott had the totality of the power he had to fight; he didn't just immediately win.

If you want to say that the Sinister thing was a low showing, you kind of have to point at a showing that shows the holding thing to be a literal show of power.