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  1. #31

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    It's amusing when you realize how much Saitama lucked out though.

    If he hadn't happened to hit the moon, Boros would have been the winner because he would have had no way to come back to Earth and would have suffocated.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    It's amusing when you realize how much Saitama lucked out though.

    If he hadn't happened to hit the moon, Boros would have been the winner because he would have had no way to come back to Earth and would have suffocated.
    I wouldn't have been surprised if Saitama could just "swim" back to earth under his own power, and who knows how long he can hold his breath.

    He's Saitama, he does OP stuff.

  3. #33
    Archmanifestation of YOLO Noldere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    It's amusing when you realize how much Saitama lucked out though.

    If he hadn't happened to hit the moon, Boros would have been the winner because he would have had no way to come back to Earth and would have suffocated.
    I don't know...

    I think Boros lucked out more than Saitama on that one.

    I mean sure, he would have won the fight, but would he really have been satisfied with a victory like that after spending 20 years getting to earth just to have the fight in the first place, especially considering how much time before that he spent bored out of his mind due to lack of worthy opponents?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    I wouldn't have been surprised if Saitama could just "swim" back to earth under his own power, and who knows how long he can hold his breath.

    He's Saitama, he does OP stuff.
    Weirdly restricted OP stuff, mind.
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  4. #34
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Basic Saitama Speed Breakdown

    As with every discussion involving Saitama, the usual caveat applies. Even as far as we are in the original manga, we have never seen Saitama even get close to going all out.

    However, we can look at the speed algorithm of everyone else and work out what his absolute minimum has to be. This will contain minor spoilers for a fight or two.

    So... I guess Genos is a useful enough measuring stick.

    When he appears, Base Genos is capable of tearing the legs of a superspeed enemy in flight with such speed and precision that they don't even notice that their legs have gone until they see him holding their legs. He outruns his own incinerator blasts to their targets and generally pulls off your standard anime blink movement thing.

    So, soft pitch at high endish bullet time, maybe?

    Likely faster.

    First time Genos, who is still in his base body, encounters Speed of Sound Sonic, Sonic blitzes around him with impunity and Genos is like; "Huh, he's pretty crazy fast,"

    So, we're a solid tier up on high end bullet timerish right there.

    Genos then gets his upgraded body and gets into another fight with Sonic later on. Sonic and him are fairly even now so Genos has reached the same level. Genos then "accelerates," and starts utterly overwhelming Sonic, deliberately snatching bits off his clothes, making him look like he's real slow. So that's another level up.

    Sonic then activates his own superspeed technique, Four Shadows Burial, and he's at a level of speed that Genos can barely perceive so his only option is to try and counter with an AoE. So that's another level up, quite a steep one at that.

    So, flash forward to the Garou arc, which is currently only in the original webcomic so this may change when Murata gets to this part, and we see Genos, enhanced body and all, fetch up against Gums and Black Sperm and they both tear him to pieces faster than he can react. Add another order of magnitude onto that and kiss Genos goodbye because he has ceased to be relevant. Bang then goes in on the same monsters and pretty much blitzes them with ease, which is another order of magnitude. Shortly after this, Black Sperm unifies all of his cells to become Golden Sperm and he's on a level where he's even effortlessly blitzing Tatsumaki, who was casually monstering on everyone at that point.

    Garou then rocks up, blitzes /everyone/ including Golden Sperm and specifically notes that he's not really having to try that hard.

    He then... finally, fetches up against Saitama and is still utterly outclassed by a non-serious Saitama.

    So... to recap, that's... ten orders of magnitude above high end bullet timerish to get to Saitama and that's still Saitama when he's not trying.

    He's certainly in the high multiples of mach. Somewhere in the hundreds or something.

    This isn't fully complete but it's a good indicator of his speed.
    Hey, so it's been a while since I did this breakdown.

    The Murata version of the series has advanced a lot since then, as has the webcomic, so I'm going to try and do a more in-depth breakdown of the general speed curve of OPM this evening. Maybe with scans, I don't know. But the thread with Roshi versus Bang got me thinking about how steep the algorithm is.
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  5. #35
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Hey, so it's been a while since I did this breakdown.

    The Murata version of the series has advanced a lot since then, as has the webcomic, so I'm going to try and do a more in-depth breakdown of the general speed curve of OPM this evening. Maybe with scans, I don't know. But the thread with Roshi versus Bang got me thinking about how steep the algorithm is.
    Would you also do a breakdown of Dragon Quest: Dai's Great Adventure?
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len Ikari145 View Post
    Would you also do a breakdown of Dragon Quest: Dai's Great Adventure?
    With a view to what exactly? Speed, strength? There's honestly not that much that's algorithmically based to my recollection. Series is pretty straight up from top to bottom.
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  7. #37
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    With a view to what exactly? Speed, strength? There's honestly not that much that's algorithmically based to my recollection. Series is pretty straight up from top to bottom.
    Speed, honestly. Destructive power, physical strength, etc are easy to quantify, but speed feats have always been a bit leery in the series IIRC.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len Ikari145 View Post
    Speed, honestly. Destructive power, physical strength, etc are easy to quantify, but speed feats have always been a bit leery in the series IIRC.
    I'd have to reread it but I honestly don't think there's a great deal of speed nor interpretation to be done in there to be honest. You have people who have an ambiguous level of super speed but there's precious little concrete stuff.

    Dai no Daibouken is mostly about big hits and stuff. It's not very interested in speed.
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  9. #39
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Update: I am approximately halfway through my exploration of the Murata OPM.

    Time for cider and chilling out.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Update: I am approximately halfway through my exploration of the Murata OPM.

    Time for cider and chilling out.
    I'm not sure if you're a masochist for this thread or to be commended, so being who I am I'll go with the latter. Good on you for doing this.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    I'm not sure if you're a masochist for this thread or to be commended, so being who I am I'll go with the latter. Good on you for doing this.
    Eh, it's quite fun, but you do reach a point when you're going through everything so fast but also trying not to miss anything where your head feels like it is melting.

    My Bleach speed breakdown from a while back was tough going, I mostly remember OPM. At the time, I remembered nothing from the final two arcs of Bleach which meant it took longer.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Hey, so it's been a while since I did this breakdown.

    The Murata version of the series has advanced a lot since then, as has the webcomic, so I'm going to try and do a more in-depth breakdown of the general speed curve of OPM this evening. Maybe with scans, I don't know. But the thread with Roshi versus Bang got me thinking about how steep the algorithm is.
    Okay.

    One-Punch Man Speed Algorithmic Breakdown

    While the early phases of this are going to be similar to my last effort on this front, there's going to be a bit more detail, better tracking Genos' upgrades, and I'm going to try and talk about the general presentation of speedster characters outside of algorithmic observations.

    So, we begin, once again with Genos 1.0 and the Mosquito lady.

    - Right from the outset, Genos 1.0 and Mosquito lady are both illustrated as having some measure of superspeed. Mosquito afterimages-dodges Genos' incinerator beam and then flies roughly from the top of a seven storey building to ground level while it is still in flight and takes off Genos' arm before he can dodge. He matches it by taking her legs off at the knee with such speed that she doesn't notice him doing it.

    > Being conservative, I would pitch this as in the region of a bit shy of bullet timer. This would also track with the presentation of series of having not particularly speed based characters [Zombieman for example] being capable of bullet timing to some degree.

    - Our next player in this algorithm is Speed of Sound Sonic. As his name would imply, he is all about speed. He is introduced doing flashstep type stuff, playfully blitzing a crowd of dudes in power armour and they cannot even see what is causing them to fall dead and the art explicitly showing his casual movements as having mach cones around them.

    > Sonic is clearly metahuman with his feats at this point in the story, definitely above bullet timing. Pointedly faster than mach from the outset.

    - Genos upgrades to 2.0 and specifically notes that he has rebuilt himself to be, among other things, faster. We see his sparring session with Saitama where he demonstrates high speed movement, using his rockets to enhance his raw movement and outrunning his own beams to their target after firing them.

    > The inference is that Genos 2.0 is faster than Genos 1.0 - obviously. I would say he's likely bullet timer adjacent at this point.

    - Sonic fights the Sea King and, while he's initially faster than him in his humanoid form, his monstrous form is apparently quicker. We see Sonic actively get serious where he does an apparent substitution speed trick that leaves him naked to escape. Sonic and Genos 2.0 briefly interact and Genos notes that Sonic is very fast. Genos 2.0 then fights the Sea King and, while outmatched, is about able to hang in there against the Sea King's humanoid form.

    > Thus far not much beyond confirmation that Sonic > Genos. No real changes in terms of speed here.

    - Genos upgrades to 3.0 and subsequently fights Sonic. In this form Genos has gained a massive increase in speed. He is not able to match Sonic in combat but is also able to toy with him a bit, tearing off his pony tail, specifically dodging and getting behind him. Sonic is notably freaked out by this. So, Genos 3.0 is significantly above a mach+ speedster at this point. Sonic responds by using Fourfold Funeral, amping his speed to the point where he is maintaining four afterimages of himself. Genos specifically notes he cannot track his movements when he's moving this fast.

    > Genos now comfortably above mach, likely some low level of multimach. Sonic when he is serious, is capable of breezing past both his previous mach+ speed and even Genos' enhanced speed so he would be at some higher level of multimach.

    - Genos upgrades to 4.0, no mention of any specific speed upgrades though, so we'll assume he's effectively the same as the last section, and ends up confronting Garou. Garou is still only at the threshold of his later power and is heavily wounded, poisoned and exhausted. Nonetheless, he is capable of matching Genos in terms of speed, dodging his high speed attacks and parrying him effectively when he uses Flowing Water Rock Crushing fist. Garou also does his "easily parry a stream of enhanced gatling gun fire with my bare hands," trick at this point.

    > Base Garou is, at minimum, around the same level as Genos 4.0 - significant multimach level in terms of speed. Likely faster given how mangled he was prior to the fight.

    - Bang rocks up and utterly blitzes Garou into the ground, the art specifically showing him just showering Garou with blows faster than he can react and specifically being able to counter his attacks even though he starts to move after Garou has already launched his attack.

    > Bang is on a level beyond both Genos 4.0 and Base Garou. We are into solidly mid level multimach at this point. Possibly on the same level as Fourfold Burial Sonic.

    - At around this point, Sonic is approached by Hellfire Flame and Gale Wind, two ninja characters who have the same training as him and have also become monsters. They mess with him a lot upon arrival but when they go into their monster forms, they move at a level of speed that Sonic is completely unable to perceive and he cites as being one of the more impressive things he's seen.

    > Hellfire Flame and Gale Wind are comfortably above Sonic, their Monster forms are high multimach as it is implied as a very big jump in speed.

    - Flashy Flash duels both Hellfire and Gale. This is the current apex of really good speed feats in the manga. They have a massive protracted duel around a gigantic chamber, covering absurdly large distances in less time than it takes an explosion to happen.

    > Flashy Flash is way into the proper term of "superspeed," here. I would argue that he's so high in the multimachs that it might not the most accurate metric to cover him with. I might suggest that he's in the "small but significant fraction of lightspeed," area here. That fight is completely ridiculous.

    - I would also put Atomic Samurai in this kind of speed bracket. While we've not seen him and Flashy Flash compare directly, but his blade speed feats are completely ridiculous. There are a ton of instances of him doing stuff like cutting entire crowds of monsters into piles of three inch cubes without appearing to move and other such wildness. I really want to work him into the algorithm but he just doesn't show up that much.

    - From here we have to switch back to the original webcomic to get to the end of the speed breakdown. Bear in mind events will likely change when Murata catches up so I'll probably have to edit things. Nevertheless, Flashy Flash is our top boy for speed at the moment. When he takes on Fully Awakened Garou, his fastest attacks get blocked hit for hit with Garou commenting that he wasn't that fast and then he gets flatly blitzed into the ground.

    > Full Awakened Garou is some higher fraction of lightspeed than Flashy Flash.

    - Saitama toys with Garou and wallops him with ease. Garou is even body reading him to get combat precog but he's unable to overcome Saitama's raw stat advantage.

    > Saitama is a higher fraction of lightspeed than Fully Awakened Garou.

    And that's your lot. That's kind of how the breakdown feels out at the moment. There's some useful characters there who can act as yardsticks for more specific enquiries - Genos, Sonic and Bang mostly. I'll be interested to see how the series changes as Murata progresses.
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  13. #43
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    Where does Boros fit into the Speed algorithm?

  14. #44
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    Where does Boros fit into the Speed algorithm?
    He doesn't frankly.

    Boros is a character that is all but impossible to nail down cleanly in terms of his exact capacities. Especially speed. He features once, has one fight and it's against Saitama who is astronomically above him all capacities. Allegedly there was a statement from ONE that Boros and Fully Awakened Garou were meant to be about the level as one another - but WoG is not feats.

    Frankly, we don't know. He's clearly got some level of super speed. I have a hard time imagining that he's slower than say... Sonic for example. Is he as fast Flashy Flash or Garou? No idea.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    He doesn't frankly.

    Boros is a character that is all but impossible to nail down cleanly in terms of his exact capacities. Especially speed. He features once, has one fight and it's against Saitama who is astronomically above him all capacities. Allegedly there was a statement from ONE that Boros and Fully Awakened Garou were meant to be about the level as one another - but WoG is not feats.

    Frankly, we don't know. He's clearly got some level of super speed. I have a hard time imagining that he's slower than say... Sonic for example. Is he as fast Flashy Flash or Garou? No idea.
    I've seen some people use his moon kick to extrapolate his speed. Their logic goes

    - Saitama would have had to be going lightspeed or therabouts in order to hit the moon the way he did. (I forget the exact calc)
    - Boros leg would need to be going as fast as Saitama was going
    - Therefore Boros can move at Lightspeed.

    I've always been kinda dubious on that. How do you feel?

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