General Purpose Anime/Manga Algorithms Thread

[Guy1]

Btw, Nik, is it cool if I copy and paste Sharp's old Ancestor feat list in here? I know it's Manhua and not Anime/Manga but it feels like a good thread to post it in.

[Nik Hasta]

Btw, Nik, is it cool if I copy and paste Sharp's old Ancestor feat list in here? I know it's Manhua and not Anime/Manga but it feels like a good thread to post it in.

Sure, I'm only actively curating my own stuff but the thread is open to anyone who wants to contribute.

And the Ancestor stuff is algorithmic so it's on theme.

[Guy1]

Sure, I'm only actively curating my own stuff but the thread is open to anyone who wants to contribute.

And the Ancestor stuff is algorithmic so it's on theme.

Sweetness.

[Guy1]

Alright. Might need to split this into two posts.

Quoted from Old Man Sharp himself!

Speed:

There's this guy in Dragon/Tiger Gate named Tiger Wong. Main, Gary-Stu character. Now, he does stuff like 'blitz people who catch bullets between their fingers'. Ancestor fights evenly with him (speedwise - he trumps him elsewhere). Lest we consider that 'fighting evenly with' is not indication of speed, Tiger takes it a step further. He attacks Ancestor using one of his specific 'speed' techniques that allows him to kick dozens of times in an instant. The scene shows him multi-striking Ancestor all-out, multiple afterimage legs in a single panel and about fifty flashes of impact all around Ancestor.

Who blocks all of the attacks, then damn near kills Tiger with the following counter.

Pretty much everyone in the comic is insanely fast (Tiger being the fastest, it's like a shonen comic that way) and Ancestor tends to blitz the crap out of most people when he gets serious.

Right, another speed-feat. There's this other guy who controls a demonic sword. Can send it flying around, remote control (Ancestor does this as well, but he just does it, doesn't need any demonic thing happening). The guy sends it after this monk. The monk can't deal with it - it's drawn like a lightning bolt flashing through the air (edit: worth noting that just it flying through the air is ripping up the ground a yard beneath it), and it's just too fast and powerful. So he puts up an Omni-directional shield.

Note - this sword is attacking him through the ground, burrowing through granite at one point with no appreciable loss of speed.

So the sword hits the shield. It's pushing into it. The wielder leaps forward and smashes his palm into the hilt, punching it through the shield. It zips in at that crazy speed at the monk's neck, inches away....

Ancestor does this 'appear out of nowhere' thing and catches the sword with his bare hand. He's nowhere in the area before this - first we see of him.

I guess I should mention...he flies. Fast enough to intercept 747's (which he then shatters in half in a gigantic explosion with a palm strike).

If I think of more speed feats, I'll mention them.

Striking power.

So, blows up 747's. That's the least of it.

There's another character - crazy, crazy powerful. He spots a friend of his about to get smooshed by a falling rock larger than a house (no joke, this thing is huge - the character is the size of a large ant in the frame). He leaps in and obliterates the boulder with a Edit: Palm strike - thousands upon thousands of tons (it's at least somewhere around 10mx10mx10m or larger, and that's at least 3000 tons if it's 'just' that). This guy later tries to stop a falling meteor that's somewhere between the size of a hill and the size of a mountain. The effort almost kills him, but he barely manages to 'deflect' it somewhat (rather than destroying it or stopping it - he more 'shifts the angle of its fall)', which is an absolutely crazy feat.

Ancestor beats this guy down.

He throws energy blasts that catch people and fling them against granite hillsides, leaving a giant Buddha's palm impression in the hill (like in Kung Fu Hustle, but in granite). He hits flying people hard enough that they arrow downward and, upon impacting with the ground, create an explosion hundreds of feet high and destroy a hillside of the same height. He hits Tiger Wong with a palm strike and the clouds a mile behind the hero just part, a hole punched through them. Guys who can fight for pages and pages against people who bust multi-ton boulders, he crushes with a single attack, or splits their head in half, or.

There's a scene where an enraged Tiger Wong, gone into a heroic fury, attacks him full-bore. Ancestor blocks the attack, and it still causes the earth to shatter into car-sized boulders for about a hundred feet in every direction.

Ancestor hits harder than Tiger. Explicitly.

Gotta head out, but I'll get to durability (haha), regeneration (on top of the durability), special abilities (dude is a swiss-army knife of things), and his sword use, which deserves commentary on its own (dude used to be known as The Invincible Swordsman in another comic, set 80 years previous, and with good reason).

Durability.

Ancestor's durability is insane even for this series. He consistently eats hits from people like Tiger Wong, Tiger being a dude who (as noted) when completely enraged can shatter the ground for fifty to one hundred feet in every direction, said ground heaving up in car-sized boulders (not SUV, but normal car). Dude named Barbarian is roughly on that level for hitting power, Ancestor powers through his hits. These things cause him anywhere from minor to major damage (usually minor, sometimes they catch him with something good). Another powerful dude stabs him through the chest - not gut - right at the solar plexus, just under the sternum. Punches a palm-wide swordblade all the way through him, so that Ancestor is impaled. It...doesn't slow him down at all, and he doesn't seem to care it's there. Ancestor proceeds to treat the guy like a child with the blade still sticking through him the whole time.

Then there's his Regeneration.

There's one scene where Tiger has gone bonzo (the 100' radius blasting thing). Him and another super-kung fu take on Ancestor and actually manage to get the upper hand. Tiger goes absolutely crazy on Ancestor, beating him consistently with strikes on the level of the one I mentioned, finishing it by smashing down the side of a mountain, Gandalf-versus-Balrog style. Ancestor travels the entire way down, bouncing into and breaking the mountainside on the way down. He hits. There are some X-ray images showing his skull to be shattered, and by shattered I mean 'into splinters the size of my little finger' (it's more cracks than it is solid). He's also busted up like nobody's business elsewhere.

Tiger attacks, Ancestor still blasts him away. Ancestor then pretty much 'flexes his qi' in a massive burst that, once again, makes the area explode.

[Guy1]

Part 2 Of Ancestor!

He's then fine. 100% cool, fully healed. His followup attack on second dude (who was doing almost as well as Tiger) kills the dude instantly, he wrecks Tiger, then he falls victim to one of his 'Evil Kung Fu has corrupted my qi!' headaches and leaves the battlefield in agony, smashing through a granite cliff as he flies away and not even noticing.

This is a pattern that happens throughout the series. Ancestor treats everyone like trash. Something happens such that he actually gets hurt. Everyone dogpiles him. Ancestor gets more hurt. Ancestor flexes his inner power. Ancestor is fine. Ancestor wrecks the entire group and either leaves to deal with other business, gets his attention taken up by someone else (whom he kills), or whatever to keep him from just executing everyone.

The guy is pretty much unstoppable.

Another durability feat. That scene with the monk fighting the guy with the demon sword. That sword burrows through rock effortlessly. It's also later shown to corrupt anyone it cuts, the demon possessing them or something (it just NICKS a guy's neck and he gets possessed). Ancestor appears out of nowhere and catches it when it has the power of someone ELSE hitting it on top of its normal rock-burrowing attack power and speed. He catches it by the blade. In his bare hand, fingers wrapping around the edges (like he's gripping a rod, only it's a blade). One-handed, arm extended, effortlessly.

And explicitly stops it dead without getting cut. Speed, strength, and durability right there.

Special abilities...

Well, he throws all kinds of qi blasts, from stuff shaped like his palm, to lances of energy, to huge DBZ style things, whatever. They ruin the day of anyone they hit and destroy huge tracts of land. Right after he blows up a jumbo jet, he pauses, sees something interesting on the horizon. Only the clouds are in the way. So with a simple wave of his hand, he sends out a massive blast of energy that basically opens a multi-mile long chasm in the clouds so he can see what's what.

As Nik mentioned, there's his Thousand Escaping Poisons thing, where he can emit enormous clouds of poisons from his body to surround him, or to snake out under his control and surround someone else, or to poison people he hits. This poison kills normal people instantly (turning them to dust and ashes), crumbles ancient trees in about the same time, and literally rots stone. It also wrecks these super-martial artists whose qi normally protect them against poison.

He flies. Like, really fast. And also fully controlled. When the guy stabs him through the gut, he grabs the guy by the face, laughing, and speeds downward from on high (they're fighting from miles up). The guy is screaming at him to stop, they have a short conversation, Ancestor obviously has the intent of planting the back of the guy's head in the rock below (they start off so high that mountains below them look like 'geography', and in that short conversation - a page, at most - they're at the ground). The guy surrenders when his head is about 2' from the rock and...Ancestor reacts perfectly and stops dead, right there.

Also, he appears immortal. He dies. He comes back to life a couple of panels later. And whales on everyone involved.

Swordsmanship.

So, dude was the Invincible Swordsman, and with good reason. His swordsmanship is the stuff of legends, even better than his empty hand stuff. He utterly overpowers everyone with weapons, except one dude from the old comic (who later dies). When he and that dude fight, the forest for about 100' around them gets slashed to kindling just because they're swinging away at each other, and all of the super-martial-artists in the area are forced into panicked dodging just to avoid dying. Note - the two swordsmen aren't attacking anyone but each other. This is just 'collateral' from their fighting.

He controls his sword through remote control, sending it flying to attack the Bullet-Time-Blitzing Tiger Wong with such speed and precision that Wong loses hair on the first attack despite his frantic dodging, and the second attack has him dead to rights (about to stab right through his back) when the other sword-dude leaps in and saves his ass.

Oh, and if he needs a new sword, he can forge one by horking up poison gas, forming it into the shape of a sword, and ramming that through his own gut (again, it doesn't really hurt him). Then he ends up with this solid, blood-coloured sword. One that works just fine against super-tough people.

Sooo...statwise he's pretty high up there, his skill is top-tier in a universe of insane martial artists, he's a swiss-army-knife of techniques, there's the poison, the flight and ranged attacks (qi, remote controlled magical sword of the week)...the regeneration...

[Postmania]

Dude sounds like he could try Omni-Man on

[Sharpandpointies]

Dude sounds like he could try Omni-Man on

I don't think he has the offensive output to put Omni-man down, at least the guy from the comics. There's some argument that his sword has a chance of cutting him (edit: upon further consideration, probably not), or his toxins affecting him, but the durability of Omni-man is 'better than that of people who eat nukes in the face and come out okay', and that's a bridge too far from where I'm standing (actually the 'eats nukes without significant issue' would be a bridge too far). And I'm fairly sure Omni-man's race has some feats for resisting poisons and such.

Omni-man also tears apart people who eat nukes in the face, so Omni-man has the offensive power to deal with Ancestor.

On the other hand, I've never seen a character with the superpower of 'Can trash the series lead despite the author's clear and tremendous bias toward said series lead' on the same level of Ancestor. ^_^

Speed-wise, I can't off-hand recall the speedfeats from the comics, but I'm fairly sure they're well-into superspeed territory, which at the least allows Omni-man to fight Ancestor, which means...not so great.

Basically Ancestor stands pretty high up there when it comes to various fictional martial artists (not at the top, mind, 'just' far better than most), but against Class 100's and such I feel he just doesn't have the stuff.

So as to not further mess up Nik's thread, if anyone wants to discuss this I'm happy to do via PM. Or another thread.

[Nik Hasta]

Figured I should drop my work on the One Punch Man light construct feats that were originally posted here.

Okay, so previously I had said that I felt that the light construct feat was a bit too tricky to work out so I wasn't going to try, but as it has come up a couple of times recently and is a bit of a linchpin for how we place Garou in terms of his speed, I figured I'd take a crack at it.

Also, yes I am procrastinating rather than working, don't you judge me.

Also, also, I am going to try and lowball the heck out of this. Establish a minimum criteria for how fast they are likely going rather than fully pitch how fast it might be.

Okay, as with any speed calculation we need to know the two core elements, distance and time. Fortunately, for the second [larger] light construct, we have a timestamp. While the formatting of the clock is a bit unclear, broadly I've seen it accepted as 0.0013 seconds or 1.3 milliseconds. For the purposes of this post, we'll be assuming this is the correct reading of the clock.

So that leaves us with distance. As it's a purely aerial display and perspective isn't always 100% correct, even with an artist of Murata's skill, I'll be using some environmental things to try and ballpark out the distances in play. As a lot happens to the environment in this fight, this will take a bit of context building but stick with me.

Firstly, here's the big shot of the totality of the second light construct:



The most obvious feature, besides the city itself beneath them, is the large hole toward the bottom of the image. This is actually a useful geographic feature because we saw this whole being initially made and subsequently enlarged, so we have a pretty good idea of how big it is.

Here we see Tatsumaki dragging the monster HQ to the surface: Scan 01, Scan 02, Scan 03. Of note, in the third image, you will see several entire blocks of houses being flipped over by the eruption of this structure being pulled up.

I'm going to just quote myself from an older thread here when I was pointing out the scale of Psykos:

Heck, you know what, just to be extra clear - here's a fun sequence to illustrate how big the rocks are.

In this sequence, Tatsumaki blasts out through a 30 storey building that is on top of the Monster Association HQ she dragged to the surface. On the second page we can see there is enough space on the top of the tower for several buildings of that scale, like ten of them, so the tower is very big.

On the third page we see Psykos' full form on the top of the tower. Eyeballing it, the 30 storey building from before would be the size of the forearms of her human parts. She is ridiculously big.

We get a further idea from this shot when Psykos fires from the top of the tower and we see that she's also cutting through cloud formations from her point of elevation and how the tower stands in scale to the rest of the city. It is really big and the top of the thinnest point of the tower is still large enough that it can hold a 100+ storey tall monster on it.

So, as the fight progress, the tower is twisted into a longer and thinner shape and, more notably, creates those hooked horn like features towards the bottom of the second image. These will be useful for the next geographical change.

Tatsumaki then psychically tears out the remains of the tower to create a lance. Again, we can see those clear, hooked shapes in both images are wildly huge, absolutely dwarfing the buildings that are close to them, they are hundreds of metres long. Please also note that horns surround the main hole on all sides.

Finally, Tatsumaki slams the lance into the hole, and this makes the hole wider once more and destroys all of the hooked shapes as seen the first image I posted of the light construct above but here is a better shot of it during the first light construct battle.

OKAY END CONTEXT. *phew*

So!

Looking at the scale of the hooked shapes, the fact that the lance destroys all of them and widens the hole even further, I would conservatively estimate that the width of the hole is about 500 metres across. I would personally be inclined to say it's more but as stated I'm lowballing to retain an air of objectivity.

Before we go to the second, and specifically noted as larger, light construct battle. Let's just look at the first one in wide shot:



You can see, clearly, that the battle is covering a distance /many/ times larger than the hole we've just worked out is about 500 metres across. Without getting into exactly how much distance is being exactly covered, in terms of /height alone/ they are roughly 8 hole widths in the sky which would have them having travelled vertically more than 4,000 metres (or 2.4 miles) in the course of this battle. Given the amount of turns and doubling back that goes on in the actual pattern I would (very loosely and again lowballing hard) pitch it in the region of 25,000 metres (or 15.5 miles)

Please note, we don't have an exact timestamp for this first construct, which is why my initial assessment was that this really hard to calculate and not worth bothering with.

However, we now have a timestamp for the second sequence.

Looking back at the first image of the second light construct, the one timestamped as happening in 0.0013 seconds, they have travelled (at minimum) a similar distance up and thrown far more attacks and doubled back on themselves a lot in the process of doing so. They are doing more dense and complex fighting over a frankly massive area.

To aggressively lowball this again, let's say they moved only /twice/ as far as my lowball estimate total (again, I would think it would be more based on the much higher density of the pattern) this would still put them at travelling 31 miles in 0.0013 seconds which would put them at a bit under 15% lightspeed easily.

And on top of all of that, Garou upgraded himself to a true monster form, getting even faster and stronger, and then got pretty effortlessly owned by Saitama with consecutive normal punches, Garou being unable to keep up with the flurry of blows despite even having an additional set of arms. Since then he gained the Cosmic Fear upgrade and is now apparently even with him in terms of speed.

So, yeah, that's a bit of an in-depth look at the feat in question. I don't have the time or inclination to try and measure out the trails of either pattern completely (also I think that goes against the spirit of the board of being that granular) but I hope I've made it clear that the light constructs cover literal miles of space in terms of their volume.

[Crunkula]

Are we going to get a thread explaining why Fairy Tail characters are universal level?


Yes, this is a serious thing being talked about.

[Nik Hasta]

Are we going to get a thread explaining why Fairy Tail characters are universal level?


Yes, this is a serious thing being talked about.

I have not read Fairy Tail for the better part of... well however many years it was since the original timeskip and so am not able to comment on whether that is accurate or not.

If you want to contribute to the thread, go right ahead.

[Guy1]

Okay, so, we should probably wait until the end of the series to judge it, but Deku's New Quirk just blew the speed curve to hell.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Are we going to get a thread explaining why Fairy Tail characters are universal level?

Yes, this is a serious thing being talked about.

They aren't though so I don't see why there would be a need for such a thread.

[Nik Hasta]

Okay, so, we should probably wait until the end of the series to judge it, but Deku's New Quirk just blew the speed curve to hell.

No it didn't?

Unless I'm missing something, it didn't seem any faster than the trick he did with Fajin and Black Whip against Lady Nagant.

[Guy1]

No it didn't?

Unless I'm missing something, it didn't seem any faster than the trick he did with Fajin and Black Whip against Lady Nagant.

You sure?

spoilers:

Just to check, we're talking about Deku going Gear 2nd right? I trust you, you're better at calcs than I am, just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. What are your thoughts on the upgrade?

end of spoilers

[big_adventure]

No it didn't?

Unless I'm missing something, it didn't seem any faster than the trick he did with Fajin and Black Whip against Lady Nagant.

I think that the presentation is that he's faster and stronger than ever. The issue for Rumbles is that it is a little hard to quantify for the moment. AFO/Shiggy has never had too much problem catching up to people with enhanced speed (reacting easily to Bakugu, Hawk, Jeanist, All Might, et.al.) and he is getting horribly blitzed in the scene we have - literally unable to track even Deku's body right in front of him (thinking "what just happened, where did he go?"), and unable to react to what Deku is doing at all. Buuuut... we don't really know where this is going to leave us, and MHA speed is sort of undefined at best. Deku has by far the best feats, even before now, given the Nagant fight, but he and maybe All Might are the only ones who are sure-fire "bullet timers."