A new Oracle?

[scary harpy]

How about an Oracle Network?

Felicity Smoak, Chloe Sullivan, Frankie, Julia Pennyworth and etcetera.

The idea the Babs helped the entire superhero community (and there were many more heroes in the 90s) is silly. She would never have time to sleep.

This way, each has her own territory and can help others as a need arises.

[Garbledarber]

How about an Oracle Network?

Felicity Smoak, Chloe Sullivan, Frankie, Julia Pennyworth and etcetera.

The idea the Babs helped the entire superhero community (and there was many more heroes in the 90s) is silly. She would never have time to sleep.

This way, each has her own territory and can help others as a need arises.

I actually really like this idea.

[Carabas]

The idea the Babs helped the entire superhero community (and there was many more heroes in the 90s) is silly. She would never have time to sleep.

Since when do Bat-people need to sleep?

[Confuzzled]

Since when do Bat-people need to sleep?

Yeah, I pretty much imagined an insomniac Babs transfixed in front of her screens 22 hours per day.

[TheDarkKnightReturns]

How about an Oracle Network?

Felicity Smoak, Chloe Sullivan, Frankie, Julia Pennyworth and etcetera.

The idea the Babs helped the entire superhero community (and there were many more heroes in the 90s) is silly. She would never have time to sleep.

This way, each has her own territory and can help others as a need arises.

Just eliminate Felicity Smoak from your list and you should be ready to go.

[Agent Z]

I LOVED Oracle, when she started (mainly because Barbra Gordon finally had a role in the Batman books again) ... but over time I think Oracle became a bit of an easy cop-out for storylines ...

... this person behind a keyboard who could be called on anyone at anytime to look through security cameras, close things down, hack into everyones personal information.

It was super cool early 1990's when internet technology was new ... but that role doesn't seem so special anymore.

And I wouldn't think requires sitting in front of a massive super computer. The right person could do it on the go with a laptop, one would assume these days.

No more of a cop out than how Bruce can hide his activities fro prying eyes with all the money he pours into his crimefighting.

Oracle did bugger all really, I mean she was good at looking up stuff in the Internet and hacking into things, but in the end she was just a voice on the other end of the phone. Nothing Alfred doesn't do now since everything seems available from the cave

Alfred didn't organize numerous missions and aid in taking down criminal empires.

I feel like I'm stuck between showing why Oracle was not just some woman in a wheelchair and why she wasn't a deus ex machina.

[Carabas]

Oracle did bugger all really, I mean she was good at looking up stuff in the Internet and hacking into things, but in the end she was just a voice on the other end of the phone. Nothing Alfred doesn't do now since everything seems available from the cave

I don't really see how Alfred is actually able to do all that as he doesn't have the training Babs has, eh, used to have.

Anyway... things Oracle did better than Alfred:

- fighting things like Brainiac on their own home turf.
- be a member of the JLA.
- found and lead your own superhero team.
- cook (okay, probably not that).
- fight crime on a global level.
- beat up people with her fists.
- and while she is busy doing all of that, do at least 75% of Batman's detective work (up to a full 100% in some stories) because Batman writers are a lazy and corner-cutting lot sometimes.

[Factor]

How about an Oracle Network?

Felicity Smoak, Chloe Sullivan, Frankie, Julia Pennyworth and etcetera.

The idea the Babs helped the entire superhero community (and there were many more heroes in the 90s) is silly. She would never have time to sleep.

This way, each has her own territory and can help others as a need arises.

Actually a pretty cool idea, but I agree with TheDarkKnightReturns about leaving Felicity out of it.

[phantom1592]

Personally I hated Oracle. I agree it just felt like a cop-out.

There was a time when Batman was the world's greatest Dectective. He had all the gadgets, he had the scientific and forensic know-how to upstage the police at any given time and catch the criminals with clues nobody else caught and make connections nobody else could.

This time was NOT the 90's.... in the 90's he would just wave a computer scanner around or say something into a microphone and Barbara would just tell him the answers, and then hack/reroute/rewhatever she had did from the clocktower and then Bruce would go punch whoever needed punching.

She made things too easy. I loved Barbara as Batgirl for decades... but once she became the all knowing Oracle I really started to dislike her.

I guess I don't mind the idea of some kind of central nerve cluster for heroes... but NOT Batman, and NOT in Bat-books.

[Carabas]

Personally I hated Oracle. I agree it just felt like a cop-out.

There was a time when Batman was the world's greatest Dectective. He had all the gadgets, he had the scientific and forensic know-how to upstage the police at any given time and catch the criminals with clues nobody else caught and make connections nobody else could.

This time was NOT the 90's.... in the 90's he would just wave a computer scanner around or say something into a microphone and Barbara would just tell him the answers, and then hack/reroute/rewhatever she had did from the clocktower and then Bruce would go punch whoever needed punching.

She made things too easy. I loved Barbara as Batgirl for decades... but once she became the all knowing Oracle I really started to dislike her.

I guess I don't mind the idea of some kind of central nerve cluster for heroes... but NOT Batman, and NOT in Bat-books.

And do you now hate Alfred for the exact same reason?
Because Batman writers ddn't exactly get less lazy after Oracle was gone, they just found a substitute.

How about when she was properly used, like in Birds Of Prey, Suicide Squad, or JLA?

[phantom1592]

And do you now hate Alfred for the exact same reason?
Because Batman writers ddn't exactly get less lazy after Oracle was gone, they just found a substitute.

How about when she was properly used, like in Birds Of Prey, Suicide Squad, or JLA?

Probably. If that's how they're using him. I haven't seen that happen yet, but I could picture the writers doing it... which is actually much WORSE then Gordon. Gordon at least fit that mold. She had history as a librarian, she had total perfect memory... so being a talking database wasn't ENTIRELY outside of her wheelhouse. Alfred?? If he's become super detective/computer-god/answer machine... then yeah, I'd totally hate that development.

Alfred's position should be butler... caretaker... emotional anchor and combat medic. He's (now) a link between Bruce the child and Bruce the Vigilante. One of the only people on the planet who knew and Cared for Bruce BEFORE his parents were killed...

Analyzing fingerprints and hacking security systems takes the character too far for me.

As for Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey... never cared for those books. No real opinion of her use there.

How about an Oracle Network?

Felicity Smoak, Chloe Sullivan, Frankie, Julia Pennyworth and etcetera.

The idea the Babs helped the entire superhero community (and there were many more heroes in the 90s) is silly. She would never have time to sleep.

This way, each has her own territory and can help others as a need arises.

This has a little more appeal to me.

The key is, that Oracle shouldn't step on anyone's toes as a hero. In Comics and Fiction in general... there is always the argument of 'If you have Superman/Reed Richards/Elminister... why do you NEED any other heroes. Same principle here. If Oracle does all the thinking... then why do you need Batman? Having someone who knows all the answers... means you don't have to think of them yourself. Batman doesn't NEED Oracle. Nightwing was trained to be a fantastic detective by the best. In the Still Robin/Pre-Nightwing New Teen Titans, he was shown looking through the telescopes and tracking down clues... With the introduction of Oracle, he didn't need to do that as much.

On a team without a batman or on a team with Black Canary or where she's a main character/puppetmaster... that would change the dynamic. But if the concept of the main hero is to do what nobody else can... and they have to get their answers from someone else, it REALLY diminishes the main character.

[Agent Z]

Probably. If that's how they're using him. I haven't seen that happen yet, but I could picture the writers doing it... which is actually much WORSE then Gordon. Gordon at least fit that mold. She had history as a librarian, she had total perfect memory... so being a talking database wasn't ENTIRELY outside of her wheelhouse. Alfred?? If he's become super detective/computer-god/answer machine... then yeah, I'd totally hate that development.

Alfred's position should be butler... caretaker... emotional anchor and combat medic. He's (now) a link between Bruce the child and Bruce the Vigilante. One of the only people on the planet who knew and Cared for Bruce BEFORE his parents were killed...

Analyzing fingerprints and hacking security systems takes the character too far for me.

As for Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey... never cared for those books. No real opinion of her use there.




This has a little more appeal to me.

The key is, that Oracle shouldn't step on anyone's toes as a hero. In Comics and Fiction in general... there is always the argument of 'If you have Superman/Reed Richards/Elminister... why do you NEED any other heroes. Same principle here. If Oracle does all the thinking... then why do you need Batman? Having someone who knows all the answers... means you don't have to think of them yourself. Batman doesn't NEED Oracle. Nightwing was trained to be a fantastic detective by the best. In the Still Robin/Pre-Nightwing New Teen Titans, he was shown looking through the telescopes and tracking down clues... With the introduction of Oracle, he didn't need to do that as much.

On a team without a batman or on a team with Black Canary or where she's a main character/puppetmaster... that would change the dynamic. But if the concept of the main hero is to do what nobody else can... and they have to get their answers from someone else, it REALLY diminishes the main character.

Commissioner Gordon is still around despite Batman. Hell, the concept of "greatest x ever" diminishes all heroes to begin with. Superman was able to function despite Batman supposedly being smarter than him. I think Bruce can survive if Oracle supposedly is smarter. It's not like he interacted with her all the time any way. SHe was mostly known for leading Birds of Prey.

[phantom1592]

Commissioner Gordon is still around despite Batman. Hell, the concept of "greatest x ever" diminishes all heroes to begin with. Superman was able to function despite Batman supposedly being smarter than him. I think Bruce can survive if Oracle supposedly is smarter. It's not like he interacted with her all the time any way. SHe was mostly known for leading Birds of Prey.

I lost some of my thought there...

It should have been that the counter to 'If we have Superman, why do we need OTHER heroes'... is that those OTHER heroes are busy in their own books. Superman doesn't take out the Flash's Rogues because he's fighting Metallo at the time... he didn't stop the Joker because he stopped a meteor at that time... Batman solves the crimes in Gotham because he's the one there to do it. The Cops (Gordon included) aren't good enough to stop the crime in Gotham, and Batman does it because he has the skills and they NEED him to save lives...

Superman and Batman can team up... but Superman can not fly into Detective Comics every week and hand off the answer or capture the bad guys. That was where Oracle stepped on toes. Having Oracle in her own book with her own teams... that's one thing. Having Batman or Nightwing or Robin run to her all the time in THEIR books, diminish them.

In the 90's it REALLY seemed like she was there in the background ALL the time. Maybe they got away from it, but there were a LOT of crossovers back then, which had Batman, Detective, Azrael, Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Catwoman all crowding into each other books with Cataclysms, Contagions, no man's land. Bruce Wayne:Murderer.... Every time I turned around there was another crossover, and Oracle was involved with all of them :P

[Agent Z]

I lost some of my thought there...

It should have been that the counter to 'If we have Superman, why do we need OTHER heroes'... is that those OTHER heroes are busy in their own books. Superman doesn't take out the Flash's Rogues because he's fighting Metallo at the time... he didn't stop the Joker because he stopped a meteor at that time... Batman solves the crimes in Gotham because he's the one there to do it. The Cops (Gordon included) aren't good enough to stop the crime in Gotham, and Batman does it because he has the skills and they NEED him to save lives...

Superman and Batman can team up... but Superman can not fly into Detective Comics every week and hand off the answer or capture the bad guys. That was where Oracle stepped on toes. Having Oracle in her own book with her own teams... that's one thing. Having Batman or Nightwing or Robin run to her all the time in THEIR books, diminish them.

In the 90's it REALLY seemed like she was there in the background ALL the time. Maybe they got away from it, but there were a LOT of crossovers back then, which had Batman, Detective, Azrael, Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Catwoman all crowding into each other books with Cataclysms, Contagions, no man's land. Bruce Wayne:Murderer.... Every time I turned around there was another crossover, and Oracle was involved with all of them :P

That's really more the nature of comics by the Big Two.

Given the tendency of writers to oversue Batgod (see issue 35 of Snyder's run) Batman could stand to show that he needs help some times.