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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewFiftyForum View Post
    I feel strangely alone in how much I'm enjoying the current Superman books. Perhaps it's because I'm far from an expert on Superman's publishing history and don't have any strong opinions on how the mythology should be arranged. Yang, even in the middle of a status quo shaking event, works with small means that focuses on the characters and dialogue while also revving up a compelling plot and mystery. It reminds me a lot about that holiest of superhero grails; 70's Marvel. I can only guess that approach is something that has been tried a lot with Superman over the years, but I've never felt that it has worked as well as it does here. It's the complete opposite of something like Geoff John's current stuff in Justice League, which is all bombast, muscle and
    I'm enjoying it too, or at least, it's been a long time since I've been enjoying the Superman books as much as I am now, overall.

    Yang's Superman has been slow, and has had its issues, but it's better than anything that came before in the New 52 Superman title. Action Comics has been great, and Batman/Superman has picked up with Truth.

    The only book I outright dislike is Superman/Wonder Woman.

  2. #32
    Spectacular Member MagnusRex's Avatar
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    I'm actually enjoying this arc. I like Clark being depowered and having to think about how to handle a situation without getting himself killed. The only thing I don't like is how everyone is so pissed at him for keeping a secret and wanting to have a life.

  3. #33
    Incredible Member TheNewFiftyForum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ina heshima kwa Jumuia kama ka View Post
    I'm enjoying it too, or at least, it's been a long time since I've been enjoying the Superman books as much as I am now, overall.

    Yang's Superman has been slow, and has had its issues, but it's better than anything that came before in the New 52 Superman title. Action Comics has been great, and Batman/Superman has picked up with Truth.

    The only book I outright dislike is Superman/Wonder Woman.
    Yeah, I quit that book a while back, and nothing that I've seen since then except some sweet Doug Mahnke art has made me regret that decision. That Magog/Circe-story really seemed like something Tomasi threw together on a lunch break. By the way, is anyone interested in speculating about Hordr_root's true identity? Son of Luthor seems a bit too obvious, right?
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  4. #34
    Mighty Member manduck37's Avatar
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    The longer Truth goes, the less interested I get. I'm trying to ride it out to the next story, but I have no idea why. I haven't enjoyed an issue of Superman for a few issues now. So far, the only thing I learned from Truth is that Yang can't seem to write Superman. That whole fighting shadow monsters while wearing his uniform under his clothes then trying to wisper "Don't tell Lois I'm Superman" right in front of Lois was just beyond terrible. Now it seems to be spinning it's wheels. The identity is out, but rather than really explore that it's just some lame fights. Plus Superman using his solar flare at the drop of hat various times throughout the arc. I'm trying to remember what this issue was even really about, but I found it so dull that nothing really stuck with me. We had the Royal Flush Gang, for some reason. Then I'm drawing a blank.

    The whole villain mystery isn't really grabbing my attention. I just want the reveal so we can move on to another story. This villain is really pretty boring and generic. Plus I also always want to call him Hodor (thanks GOT). So for me, the only mystery is why did I buy this book? I think this arc may make me drop Superman after 25 years of reading. I even read the electric Supes days and I can't take this.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewFiftyForum View Post
    Yeah, I quit that book a while back, and nothing that I've seen since then except some sweet Doug Mahnke art has made me regret that decision. That Magog/Circe-story really seemed like something Tomasi threw together on a lunch break. By the way, is anyone interested in speculating about Hordr_root's true identity? Son of Luthor seems a bit too obvious, right?
    Pretty sure it's Vandal Savage.
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  6. #36
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    The truth has turned out to be a big disappointment!! For me it just the writers changing SM from a kind and caring person into a A-HOLE!! They want to destroy the character like they did with WW. DC wants all their characters to be tortured soul!! Violent characters!! Where the heroes or not different than the villains!!
    Last edited by chlj1; 10-01-2015 at 06:24 AM.

  7. #37
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    I agree with a lot of comments here. I do feel like Pak and Yang are making lemonade out of lemons in a sense. In theory I do think it's okay if Superman does have an unorthodox diversionary period every now and again (Electric Blue Superman, Superman walks across America, etc).

    The problem for me is the execution on the whole. The stories do seem to have a same-old, same-old feel. Almost like the well-worn hand of Eddie Berganza or a bogstandard editorial approach is the overriding influence, ultimately. For all of the potential of the things present here to offer a fresh, novel take the Superman books read pretty plainly. They aren't terrible and they aren't stand out, they're just there. If this was the Batgirling of Superman then it seems as though it got put out by somebody who doesn't "Batgirl" all that spectacularly.

    Romita Jr.'s art sadly continued on with, in my opinion, a decline. Don't know if JRJR has lost it completely or if he's just in such a hurry anymore that that former glory cannot be recaptured. Things really suffer for this shorthand he's developed in his art. The characters look inconsistent from panel to panel and the long shots are pencil-whipped and sloppy looking with mangled, anguished expressions that don't evoke emotion but instead seem slapdash. Instead of being complimentary it's distracting. Not his finest work. Kuder, when you can get a full arc by him, is sublime to me.

    I would argue the market has responded in kind to these. Action is registering orders on par with where it was at just pre-New 52. Superman is doing the best with a modest gain from the DC You launch but it's about where the title was pre-JMS' disastrous run. Batman/Superman finds itself somewhere between and Superman/Wonder Woman picks up the rear. To put it in context, Superman usually charts ~high 30s to mid-60s out of the Top 300 comics pretty consistently. Superman is a mid-range character as far as the market is concerned taking an obvious back seat to flashes in the pan like Harley Quinn and Deadpool and being the easy second fiddle to Batman at DC itself.

    In theory there's a lot to like about something different just to flex some different muscles but there's something about the character or the execution or the off-the-beaten-path approach that keeps Superman quietly doing his thing regardless.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewFiftyForum View Post
    By the way, is anyone interested in speculating about Hordr_root's true identity? Son of Luthor seems a bit too obvious, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deniz Camp View Post
    Pretty sure it's Vandal Savage.
    Really?

    Does anyone think the name Horder-Root has any significance? Perhaps, a clue to the identity?

  9. #39
    Amazing Member Marvel Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathFalcon182 View Post
    What? There's no questions as to what makes Superman good. It was his upbringings. There was always good in the heart of Kal-El and Maratha and Johnathan helped flesh it out. They taught him responsibility, taught him to be a human and a good man regardless of his powers. I seriously can't support Truth anymore if they want to go down this path. Essentially ruining the character by changing his characteristics.

    Adventures of Superman vol 1 #472, part two of the Krisis of the Krimson Kryptonite.

    Clark has lost his powers and he is a complete human because of the krimson kryptonite that Mr. Mxyzptlk has created. He still tries to be Superman and do what Superman would do, even if he has no powers. He even wins in a fight against Mammoth, convincing him that the man of steel cannot be beaten.

    Later on in the same story he starts using an armor until he finally recovers his powers.

    Adventures_of_Superman_472lr.jpg

    I have actually liked the New 52 Superman so far, but comments like those make me miss the triangle era...
    Last edited by Marvel Man; 10-01-2015 at 08:48 AM. Reason: Forgot to quote :p

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    Really?

    Does anyone think the name Horder-Root has any significance? Perhaps, a clue to the identity?
    "Root password" is term used to describe password/login information that allows you to access everything that is on the specific system.

  11. #41
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    What are we talking about the current issue here too?

    I have already said this but Yang's work has been incredibly underwhelming so far.

    And I don't really think that's the crossover's fault in this case (although it certainly has caused its own share of problems).

    Aside from a rushed conclusion in issue 44, Pak has been creating one of the most entertaining Superman stories in Action Comics and it's all because of the event that allowed him to explore some concepts of the character that are not usually touched upon.

    Yang's run is just... meh. There's nothing particularly wrong that could make you say: "This is f*cking awful!" but there's nothing particularly great either. The characterization is pretty lackluster and sometimes odd, the dialogue lacks personality, the story is borderline boring and the villains are so predictable that they're getting offensive (Yeah, a guy who Clark knows became a criminal because he suffered due to his connection to him. TOTALLY INNOVATIVE!).

    When a hit and miss guy like Peter Tomasi is doing a better job than you then you better start worrying.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewFiftyForum View Post
    By the way, is anyone interested in speculating about Hordr_root's true identity? Son of Luthor seems a bit too obvious, right?
    While I agree that Vandal Savage may be involved with this story (he is the big bad in several December Superman titles and is known for leading hordes), I don't believe he is Hordr_Root. Yang mentioned in an interview on another site that Hordr_Root's father is someone who has a "long history with Superman." This, of course, could be taken several ways, but I have two theories I like:

    1. Hordr_Root is Jon Ross. In the pre-Crisis Earth-1 DC universe, Jon Ross was the son of Pete Ross, and like his father knew Clark Kent and Superman were the same person.

    2. Hordr_Root is Jonathan Samuel Kent, son of the pre-Flashpoint Clark Kent and Lois Lane-Kent, who is displaced on Prime-Earth as a result of Convergence.

    Both theories hinge on the characters being adults who came back in time, however.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ina heshima kwa Jumuia kama ka View Post
    That's simplyfing it a bit, but I'd take it that outside of Waid, Morrision, and maybe Maggin, every other Superman writer sees it that way.

    But that is what Yang is getting it. There are those who say Superman can afford to be a paragon of morality because his powers make it much easier for him than other people. He doesn't have to compromise at the same level as regular people.

    If a criminal is holding someone hostage with a gun aimed at them, Superman doesn't have to worry about killing the criminal to save the hostage, but an ordinary cop might be forced to kill the criminal in order to save the life of the hostage.

    What Yang is going to try and do is show people that Superman is still the greatest hero even while severely depowered. Someone that will always go by "There's always another way", no matter what.

    They'll tease Superman going to extremes, only for him to stick with his ideals in the end.
    This here is a quote directly from CV interview, decide for yourself. They aren't just teasing he can't hang on to his ideals, they want to write a story where he can't and won't.

    CV: What can Superman do to protect those closet to him now?

    GENE: Yeah, not that heís not fast enough, and now that heís not strong enough, what can he do to protect them? Thereís a discussion that happens around Supermanís character. If you are the most powerful person on the planet, it is easy for you to hang onto these ideals and try to be good. You can basically do anything and thereís not much that can threaten you. If you take away Supermanís strength, is he still able to hang onto those ideals? Thatís kind of what weíre playing with. Weíre hinting that he canít. Heíll have to operate differently now that heís not strong. Some of those ideals might have to go by the wayside. Greg Pak in ACTION COMICS will also touched on that in his next arc. How will Superman have to operate differently now that heís de-powered?

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    His powers have nothing to do with it. Its been his characterization since the New 52 started. Tougher, more attitude, Superman just as much the "real" him than Clark Kent, etc. This title does not illustrate all that as well as Pak and Morrison, but at the same time its not wildly off-base to that template either. I find him less stupid in this title as opposed to generic. He doesn't have much personality. He lacks the wit other writers have given him.
    Thing is Morrison brought an attitude to Superman in a very smart way. That's not what Pak is doing in Superman. Morrison wrote a Superman that was intelligent, wanted to fight crime but he wasn't driven into action solely based on first emtion that caught him when something happened before him. Not to say he didn't feel, just that his actions were based on his smarts rather than being emotional about it and punch his way out of every situation. That's Pak's Superman in Truth so far. Also Morrison's Superman didn't like and enjoy the use of violence. Pak's Superman feels good while punch baddies. Morrison's Superman wasn't just defined by his powers, he used his brain just as much in every situation. Pak's Superman just uses his fist, never does he stop to think the situation through first. Morrison's Superman wasn't quick to lose his temper, Pak's Superman not only loses his tempe, he starts doing dumb stuff and can't calm himself down. Morrison set rhe standard for the best characterization of Superman we could ask of a reboot but nobody followed it up. Truth Superman is Pak's own take on dumb, violence loving not using his smarts angry dude.

  15. #45
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Agree to disagree there. It think Morrison and Pak's Superman are virtually identical. I don't see where people are getting that he's written as dumb and doesn't think. He's always thinking things out. Hell that's one of the criticisms (but not mine), is that it can be too heavy on exposition him thinking things out. Being forced to just use brute force as his weapon doesn't mean he's dumb. And as far ast he fighting, Morrison may not have emphasized it, but neither did he outright say Superman was opposed to it, to my knowledge. His Superman was not a pacifist. Pak indeed went the extra mile and said Superman enjoys a good fight. But frankly I think that's the superior characterization. He should like a good fight. He should enjoy getting to use his powers. He likes his special heritage again. You don't have to have him abusing what he can do just by having him enjoy being a superhero. Its not an either or thing.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-01-2015 at 05:35 PM.
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