Ra's al Ghul: Eco-Terrorist?

[t hedge coke]

When/where does the notion that Ra's is a caring "eco-terrorist" trying to preserve/save the world come into place first? It's not really in any of the older Ra's al Ghul stories, where he's shown as a slaver, a weapons dealer, murderer, kidnapper, and terrorist for profit and vengeance. Wherein he's described as a "Hitler-type," and a bogeyman of organized crime.

But, my readings are all out of order, too, and I know there are gaps. By Tower of Babel, he's at least keeping some rare animals and trying to preserve them. But, even most of his modern stories have absolutely nothing to do with any notion that he needs to reduce the human population to preserve the planet, just that he likes financing and then selling or using horrible biological weapons to keep him in castles, fine threads, and slaves.

The 90s cartoon is the only place I can think of that made the eco bid strongly, and they did that with more than one other character, too. It was a bit of a 90s cartoon theme. Catwoman, preservationist extreme. Poison Ivy, preservationist by death. Joker... okeh, Joker didn't. I think.

[JBatmanFan05]

Firstly, IMHO, BTAS ("The Demon's Quest") cemented that motivation and spread it. O'Neil clarifies or retcons his own story sort of (The Demon's Quest is arguably better written than the original Ra's stories, O'Neil outdoes himself, literally).

But it did reflect some in prior comics. Barr might have started it.

In Batman Annual 8 (1982), Ra's: "As you know, I have a vision of an earth as clean and pure as a snow-swept mountain or the elemental reaches of space"
http://s837.photobucket.com/user/fli...82-33.jpg.html

But I wonder if it might go back to The Brave and Bold #159 by O'Neil/Aparo...but I'd have to re-read it to check. I don't recall that motive being reflected in 1975's Bat-Murderer arc by Wein, nor the '78 and '79 Ra's stories. Nor 1981's Lazarus Affair arc by Wolfman.


Anyway, it was a great tweak by Barr and/or O'Neil. Gave Ra's that Magneto dimension needed to make him a truly thought provoking and somewhat sympathetic villain.

[The World]

I was wondering the same thing some time ago because I remember seeing it come up as a blurb in Wagner's Trinity story and was honestly pretty stumped by it when I saw the notion come up.

[TheNewFiftyForum]

Birth of the Demon (the origin story by O'Neill and Breyfogle, not the collected edition) doesn't show Ra's as having any sort of environmental concern, right? You'd think by then (1992) O'Neill would have got around to that as a motivation for Ra's al Ghul's actions if he ever intended to.

Personally, I much prefer Batman Begins' take on him as a manipulator of history for vague notions of "balance" and "cleansing of decadence" (which I guess would mean some eco-terrorist stuff from time to time) rather than the Roger Moore-era Bond villain he's usually portrayed as.

[t hedge coke]

I honestly prefer him as "just" a rich, very old, horrible, horrible man who would sell world-killing weapons to someone because money, and because he knows he will outlive it anyway.

Not a one note character, but one so entrenched in his evil and decadence, he's just beyond justifying it.

[TheNewFiftyForum]

I honestly prefer him as "just" a rich, very old, horrible, horrible man who would sell world-killing weapons to someone because money, and because he knows he will outlive it anyway.

Not a one note character, but one so entrenched in his evil and decadence, he's just beyond justifying it.

If you're immortal and in it for the money, surely there are better ways of getting it than global terrorism?

[t hedge coke]

If you're immortal and in it for the money, surely there are better ways of getting it than global terrorism?

Ra's al Ghul likes hurting people. That's pretty hardwired into the character.

There are always "better ways," but global crime empire probably nets quite a bit and it's less tedious than legitimate business and you get to destroy more lives in petty schemes.

O'Neil's described him as Dracula and, let's face it, Dracula's real estate based evil wasn't the steadiest of plans, either. Sometimes these guys just like being mean and taking things.

[TheNewFiftyForum]

Ra's al Ghul likes hurting people. That's pretty hardwired into the character.

There are always "better ways," but global crime empire probably nets quite a bit and it's less tedious than legitimate business and you get to destroy more lives in petty schemes.

O'Neil's described him as Dracula and, let's face it, Dracula's real estate based evil wasn't the steadiest of plans, either. Sometimes these guys just like being mean and taking things.

That's closer to Vandal Savage IMO, but we're deep into subjective territory here. Not that I'm "defending" Ra's al-Ghul though; being a mean, sadistic bastard follows quite naturally from the stuff he's done throughout the years.

[t hedge coke]

we're deep into subjective territory here.

Yeah, I don't mean to step on any of the other versions/interpretations. I don't even dislike any of them. But, with all these characters that are the product of divers hands, it never comes down to a "true" version, just personal taste.

[John Venus]

Birth of the Demon (the origin story by O'Neill and Breyfogle, not the collected edition) doesn't show Ra's as having any sort of environmental concern, right? You'd think by then (1992) O'Neill would have got around to that as a motivation for Ra's al Ghul's actions if he ever intended to.

He does mention his concerns about the environment when he finally appears at the end of the story to confront Batman. Ras is very, very old so he could tell how much the environment has changed because of man's actions. Birth of the Demon was largely set during the Crusades era so it couldn't delve into the environmentalist stuff. It does show Ras roots however, he was a doctor who became consumed by anger and vengeance so whilst he does have a caring side but he can also be angry, selfish and short tempered leading him to take extreme measures for anything he perceives to be a slight.

For me, Birth of the Demon is the best Ras story. All the stuff essential to understanding the Al Ghul clan are in that story.

[taylortexas]

I've always thought of Ra's as being someone who has lived long to really see the negative aspects of humanity and the effects of mass population. To me, everything he does is to bring him a step closer to his ideal world and he will step over however many bodies it takes to get there. This can include protecting the environment and rooting out corruption (I'm thinking of Batman Begins here). He wants to burn it all down and start over with him at the head of things. There could be a sliver of nobility left in him but any sort of good intention is immediately eliminated by the warped perspective of a man whose immortality has also driven him somewhat insane.

[Confuzzled]

I've always thought of Ra's as being someone who has lived long to really see the negative aspects of humanity and the effects of mass population. To me, everything he does is to bring him a step closer to his ideal world and he will step over however many bodies it takes to get there. This can include protecting the environment and rooting out corruption (I'm thinking of Batman Begins here). He wants to burn it all down and start over with him at the head of things. There could be a sliver of nobility left in him but any sort of good intention is immediately eliminated by the warped perspective of a man whose immortality has also driven him somewhat insane.

Pretty much this, though I feel honor and nobility are present in bit more than a "sliver" form.

[Frontier]

One of my biggest issue with Ra's in Arrow, despite enjoying Matt Nable's performance as the character, is that they really failed to ascribe a motivation or goal to the character and the League as a whole. They just sometimes seemed to do things...because, without being clear what their real mission statement or goals were, and it sometimes felt like the writers had to stretch the plot just to pit Team Arrow against them.

Whether it would've been as an eco-terrorist obsessed with purifying the Earth of its excess and evil (which it seemed like the show wanted you to think about him without ever really exploring it) or as a man who enjoys committing acts of terror and hurting others to fund his own opulence, it would've been nice if they had made Ra's have some discernible motivation.