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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    Sturgeon's Law - 90% of everything is crap.
    True. Oh so true.

  2. #32
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    Hawkeye, too. Moon Knight by Ellis and Karnak looks interesting, as well. There's interesting work happening in all of comics. It's best to not close yourself off to any avenue so you don't miss cool things when they happen in places you might not expect.
    Oh god, YES Hawkeye too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    Yeah, the Marvel books I've enjoyed the most in recent years are the ones like these; off in their own corner, doing their thing.
    Ditto. The only comic I can think of that I've loved in the last 5 years "connected" to the events is Uncanny X-men by Bendis... and even then... it wasn't really. YES, we had a tie-in to Inhumanity and Original Sin... but did we... really? They never referenced the event comic, instead just put on the tie-in cover and did their own thing, telling their own story.
    Young Avengers by Kieron Gillen
    Gambit by James Asmus
    Hawkeye by Matt Fraction
    Journey into Mystery by Kathrynn Immonen
    She-Hulk by Charles Soule
    Superior Foes of Spiderman by Nick Spencer

    All wonderful comics, all free of events, free of having to include any major "overall comic" plot points. And even with events, comics like Jeff Parker's Thunderbolts or Kieron Gillen's Journey into Mystery used the events for their own purpose, and it never felt like it was taking over the comic (far from it, it felt organic, making you wonder how the plot could have happened without it).

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaManChiefFan View Post
    I will admit that Gillen's Young Avengers was brilliant. However, I didn't like She-Hulk and Superior Foes of Spiderman at all. Just wasn't for me. Marvel and DC do have some great stuff. The problem is that they ignore the great stuff being released to make way for the crap they see as a cash cow.
    Then just ignore their ignore. Buy what YOU want, and what YOU think is good, and ignore what Marvel is telling you is great. There are still tons of great comics by Marvel, just takes a little while to work out what comics please you and get those. Often yeah, you need to try a few duds, but ultimately - I get roughly 5-8 comics a month, and I love ALL of them, and any I stop enjoying I just drop. Simples.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  3. #33
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Since a couple of folks have mentioned the Fraction/Aja Hawkeye run, it is worth mentioning that the current Hawkeye run the Lemire is writing may very well be the Fraction run's equal(to tell you the truth, I think it may be better).

    Very solid self-contained story. If you liked Clint's brother being a part of the previous run, you might want to consider checking it out.

  4. #34
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    I think other people were right in saying to put energy into indie comics and non-big 2 superheroes. I'd also suggest looking into back issues of other genres that DC/Marvel used to do back in the day. Depending on your tastes you might find some real gems.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaManChiefFan View Post
    Ok, I still adore comics. It is still my favorite form of entertainment. However, the stuff I love are now stuff from indie companies like Image and Dark Horse or companies that at least give more creative freedom than the big two like Vertigo. Marvel and DC have been making so many mistakes lately that it is annoying me. So pretty much, I am almost done with both companies for good and will be putting all of my attention towards indie companies from now on. However, there are TWO runs I will still read from Marvel and DC, but it comes with restrictions though.

    I will read Batman as long as Scott Snyder is writing it
    I will also be reading Jeff Lemire's upcoming run on Moon Knight.

    Other than those two, I AM DONE. Constant reboots, nonstop events, illogical storylines, it is too much for me. Simply put, the charm of superheroes is gone for me. Like I said, I will still be reading Image, Vertigo and stuff like that. But Marvel and DC has done so much that pissed me off that I am done.
    I thought that you're main problem was with the writing...but then I don't get how you can like Scott Snyder's paint-by-numbers Batman stories.

    Anyway, I don't have a problem with SH comics, but I do find that too much of the stuff from Marvel and DC is thin on substance and just not worth the cover price. SH comics (especially the stuff from Marvel) was really great in terms of stories about character and stepping up to the plate (especially when you don't feel like it), duty, service and being bigger than yourself. I also liked the social commentary. But much of that is gone now. Right now I am enjoying a lot of what Image puts out. And even the stuff I like from DC (Omega Men, Grayson, Midnighter) is not so much conventional SH comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Since a couple of folks have mentioned the Fraction/Aja Hawkeye run, it is worth mentioning that the current Hawkeye run the Lemire is writing may very well be the Fraction run's equal(to tell you the truth, I think it may be better).
    It's better IMHO. Fraction runs (like much of what he writes) is just one dimensional hetero male wish fulfillment fantasy, where the hero just kicks butt and screws as many women as possible. Jeff Lemiere has more layers and dimension to his characters and he is a phoneminal story teller.

    He has quickly become one of my top 5 all time favourite writers.
    Last edited by Mia; 10-04-2015 at 09:18 AM.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    What's this now?!
    As others have mentioned, the new Vertigo book by Hernandez and Cooke.

    What gets me frustrated is that a new book by Gilbert Hernandez and Darwyn Cooke should be the book that everyone is talking about. People are certainly aware that it's coming, but it's flown under the radar compared to whatever's coming out of Secret Wars. This is Gilbert Hernandez, one of the finest creators in the history of the medium, and Darwyn Cooke, perhaps the finest talent to come along in the past two decades-- how is this not the book that every comic fan is anticipating????

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanboyStranger View Post
    As others have mentioned, the new Vertigo book by Hernandez and Cooke.

    What gets me frustrated is that a new book by Gilbert Hernandez and Darwyn Cooke should be the book that everyone is talking about. People are certainly aware that it's coming, but it's flown under the radar compared to whatever's coming out of Secret Wars. This is Gilbert Hernandez, one of the finest creators in the history of the medium, and Darwyn Cooke, perhaps the finest talent to come along in the past two decades-- how is this not the book that every comic fan is anticipating????
    There's not a lot of promotion for it, for one thing.

    The other is, unfortunately, it's not about Batman, Superman, or some other character who's been an inflatable float in a parade.
    Patsy Walker on TV! Patsy Walker in new comics! Patsy Walker in your brain! And Jessica Jones is the new Nancy! (Oh, and read the Comics Cube.)

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanboyStranger View Post
    As others have mentioned, the new Vertigo book by Hernandez and Cooke.

    What gets me frustrated is that a new book by Gilbert Hernandez and Darwyn Cooke should be the book that everyone is talking about. People are certainly aware that it's coming, but it's flown under the radar compared to whatever's coming out of Secret Wars. This is Gilbert Hernandez, one of the finest creators in the history of the medium, and Darwyn Cooke, perhaps the finest talent to come along in the past two decades-- how is this not the book that every comic fan is anticipating????
    Like Hedge said it's a creator own thing from Vertigo. If it was the continuity return of say Ragman or maybe a Miss Martian mini-series, more people would be talking about it.

  9. #39
    Surfing With The Alien Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    It's better IMHO. Fraction runs (like much of what he writes) is just one dimensional hetero male wish fulfillment fantasy, where the hero just kicks butt and screws as many women as possible.
    Which comic were you reading?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    Which comic were you reading?
    Mia is talking about Hawkeye. And while I wouldn't call it one dimensional and I wouldn't call it a wish fulfillment fantasy in exactly the same way that say James Bond or Conan is, there's still an aspect of it that's male fantasy. I'm thinking of the aspect of the comic were you have beautiful exes that are willing to hang out with you and each other at the same time ( "Hey all of us have been intimate with Clint, but let's set that aside so that we can play card games together with just him and no one else"). And they are all willing to bail you out of trouble at the same time ( "oh that Clint, let's get together and help him out cuz we all still love him on a certain level")...yeah, that's kind of a male fantasy.

    There's nothing wrong with having male fantasies, but that's kinda what it is...
    Last edited by ed2962; 10-04-2015 at 01:04 PM.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member dzub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins View Post
    There's so much more to superheroes than Marvel and D.C. though. Read Astro City and Powers if you haven't already.
    I highly recommend astro city too.
    It's the best 'pure' superhero comic right now..Marvel is going through a deconstruction right now and DC is trying to be Edgy. they both still and wil always have good ongoing books but astro city is a modern return to the golden age

    Quote Originally Posted by Overhazard View Post
    Astro City is amazing. It should be as popular as Saga, Bitch Planet, or any other indie title but it's not.
    it should but superhero comics dont get as much cool points as indie ones :/
    What we used to call life has very little worth these days. Welcome to the very edge.
    --Prince Namor (Earth-616)

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Mia is talking about Hawkeye. And while I wouldn't call it one dimensional and I wouldn't call it a wish fulfillment fantasy in exactly the same way that say James Bond or Conan is, there's still an aspect of it that's male fantasy. I'm thinking of the aspect of the comic were you have beautiful exes that are willing to hang out with you and each other at the same time ( "Hey all of us have been intimate with Clint, but let's set that aside so that we can play card games together with just him and no one else"). And they are all willing to bail you out of trouble at the same time ( "oh that Clint, let's get together and help him out cuz we all still love him on a certain level")...yeah, that's kind of a male fantasy.

    There's nothing wrong with having male fantasies, but that's kinda what it is...
    I like Hawkeye more than, pretty much anything Fraction's done otherwise, but I would like it more if it took some jabs at its fantasy once in awhile.

    I'm really enjoying JLA 3000's interest in mocking, however gently, overly cynical takes of the Justice League. In trying to recreate Wonder Woman, Superman, the Flash, the far future young geniuses have tried to make them more believable, riffing on the old stories, so Wonder Woman's a constantly aggressive fighter with sex issues, Superman's cocksure bully. The Flash is Barry, but he's got red hair and his superspeeds hurt his skin because he has no natural protection against drag. It could easily play as the I'm-too-cool-for-superheroes power fantasy, or have them lose bad and prove the classic-heroes-are-the-best fantasy, but instead Giffen and DeMatteis commit to following through on their heroes' creator's mistakes.

    It's the kind of awareness in the authors that saves Preacher, for me, and it works great here. I'm all for indulgence and fantasy, but when the world-order starts agreeing with the more absurd forms, it's got to be a children's story or I kind of check out a little and start critiquing it reflexively as I go along.
    Patsy Walker on TV! Patsy Walker in new comics! Patsy Walker in your brain! And Jessica Jones is the new Nancy! (Oh, and read the Comics Cube.)

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    There's not a lot of promotion for it, for one thing.

    The other is, unfortunately, it's not about Batman, Superman, or some other character who's been an inflatable float in a parade.
    How do we change this? I know I'm preaching to the choir, but how do we point people to better comics? Why does this thread even need to exist?

    (That's that the end of my hysteria for tonight.)

    But seriously, if we begin with the assumption that most comics readers can read (which for my money is fair) and at a certain point what they are reading doesn't work for them (which is inevitable), how do we guide them in the right direction? You would assume that the curious would follow creators, but most don't. How do we we get someone who likes Lemire's Animal Man, Green Arrow, or Hawkeye to read the Essex County Trilogy? To follow that to American Splendor? Or better yet to Eddie Campbell's Alec?

    How do we make N American comics fandom better read? How do we expand the 200,000 superhero faithful to embrace comics beyond their comfort zone? It's not like the comics aren't there. Why aren't millions of people reading these books like in Europe or Japan?

    I know I'd rather live in a world where Gene Yang's American Born Chinese is more read than his tepid run on Superman.
    Last edited by FanboyStranger; 10-04-2015 at 08:13 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanboyStranger View Post
    How do we change this? I know I'm preaching to the choir, but how do we point people to better comics? Why does this thread even need to exist?

    (That's that the end of my hysteria for tonight.)

    But seriously, if we begin with the assumption that most comics readers can read (which for my money is fair) and at a certain point what they are reading doesn't work for them (which is inevitable), how do we guide them in the right direction? You would assume that the curious would follow creators, but most don't. How do we we get someone who likes Lemire's Animal Man, Green Arrow, or Hawkeye to read the Essex County Trilogy? To follow that to American Splendor? Or better yet to Eddie Campbell's Alec?

    How do we make N American comics fandom better read? How do we expand the 200,000 superhero faithful to embrace comics beyond their comfort zone? It's not like the comics aren't there. Why aren't millions of people reading these books like in Europe or Japan?

    I know I'd rather live in a world where Gene Yang's American Born Chinese is more read than his tepid run on Superman.
    Well this issue isn't specific to comics. Movies,books,Music all all suffer from the same thing really.People flock to the mostly less creative but more heavy promoted product because that's what they know.

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member MRP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanboyStranger View Post
    How do we change this? I know I'm preaching to the choir, but how do we point people to better comics? Why does this thread even need to exist?

    (That's that the end of my hysteria for tonight.)

    But seriously, if we begin with the assumption that most comics readers can read (which for my money is fair) and at a certain point what they are reading doesn't work for them (which is inevitable), how do we guide them in the right direction? You would assume that the curious would follow creators, but most don't. How do we we get someone who likes Lemire's Animal Man, Green Arrow, or Hawkeye to read the Essex County Trilogy? To follow that to American Splendor? Or better yet to Eddie Campbell's Alec?

    How do we make N American comics fandom better read? How do we expand the 200,000 superhero faithful to embrace comics beyond their comfort zone? It's not like the comics aren't there. Why aren't millions of people reading these books like in Europe or Japan?

    I know I'd rather live in a world where Gene Yang's American Born Chinese is more read than his tepid run on Superman.
    As Baseman pointed it, it goes beyond comics with the reading public. What are the most widely circulated books at most public libraries? Not the fine literature or new award winning critically acclaimed stuff, nosiree it's series romance books by Harlequin and the like )i.e. thing sread out of brand loyalty or genre fixation). And it's not the well reviewed critically acclaimed books that dominate the best-seller lists, it's the trashy thrillers like Dan Brown or Sue Grafton and the like churn out.

    Reality television dominated ratings for how long now? It's a trash culture that dominates and sells lowest common denominator fare. Comics merely reflect the broader culture in terms of the proclivities of what gets consumed and sells and what doesn't. There are a small number of vocal people swimming against the tide, but the tide hasn't changed and shows no signs of doing so.

    Enjoy the great books, recommended them to open-minded or like-minded folks, but don't expect them to be embraced by the masses as a whole until the masses proclivities change at all levels, not just in comics, and I doubt that's happening in my lifetime.

    -M

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