For SM/WW fans - writer / illustrator question

[ManSinha]

I think there's some really fertile ground for a break story. But I'd like to see it played as almost simultaneously epic and intimate in scale. I don't know why but I've always had this image of Wonder Woman running at that the crack of down through a quite DC neighborhood, and Superman floating down to say hello. The two have spent some time apart. She's doing he diplomat thing. He's reestablishing his mission and life. It's awkward. They're allowed to be awkward. It ends with a s'long and a smile, and a "we should save the world together sometime". I think this whole story (break up and reestablishment) should play out over issues that seem like one off but really have a larger thematic link. This way the scale can be large, but the characters can drive the overarching narrative and goal.

Fair enough - but in a sense that was already done partly off panel and not as eloquently as you describe - my avatar is pulled from that somewhat awkward scene between them - I photoshopped the thought balloons etc and played with the image a bit using Keynote but that whole "blowing up a nuclear reactor" and then taking some time apart thing has been done - I do wish it was not as rushed and they got them back headlong into another crisis

[Flash Gordon]

I'd love to see the book tell it's own stories and not be cross over heavy. If we're going to have this couple together, do fun things with them!

[Superlad93]

Fair enough - but in a sense that was already done partly off panel and not as eloquently as you describe - my avatar is pulled from that somewhat awkward scene between them - I photoshopped the thought balloons etc and played with the image a bit using Keynote but that whole "blowing up a nuclear reactor" and then taking some time apart thing has been done - I do wish it was not as rushed and they got them back headlong into another crisis

Well not really since what I'd like to see is an actual no joke break up story and not just a "break". That would make the time apart and awkward meet up all the more meaningful, and change the dynamic that they'll have to work with.

[Sacred Knight]

For something like that they'd be better off just canceling the book and dealing with the fall out in JL or somewhere else. Because you're sure as hell not appealing to the current fans of the book by doing a permanent break up storyline and tuning in each month for post-break up tension and awkwardness. That's a big fat pass for me.

[ManSinha]

I would tend to agree with SK - the book and the associated merchandise appears to have enough $$ behind it that DC may not want to risk it by an abrupt cancellation - well time can be a two edged sword - given half decent story lines - there would appear to be a growing fan base for this couple -

[Flash Gordon]

Far too soon for a break up, I think. I may not be that into the pairing, but they've already committed to it, and it has potential, so I'd like some more stories.

[Sacred Knight]

Also would love a cliché silver-age inspired body swap story. Just some plain old fun one-off tales, like Action did with their Bizarro issue.

[Superlad93]

Artist

Andrew Robinson

Gabriel Hernandez Walta

Cameron Stewart

Cliff Chiang

Ryan Sook

Frazer Irving


I picked these artist because I think a book about exploring the emotions of two superheroes set to the backdrop of rip-snorting end-of-the-world-adventure should be interesting to look at. Things that can't be communicated by words or look need an interesting and expressive outlet to be featured. It could be strong composition/character and object placement, inventive layouts, distortion of images, and so on. I think the artist above all have keen eyes for style and innovative presentation of information.

[Superlad93]

For something like that they'd be better off just canceling the book and dealing with the fall out in JL or somewhere else. Because you're sure as hell not appealing to the current fans of the book by doing a permanent break up storyline and tuning in each month for post-break up tension and awkwardness. That's a big fat pass for me.

I would tend to agree with SK - the book and the associated merchandise appears to have enough $$ behind it that DC may not want to risk it by an abrupt cancellation - well time can be a two edged sword - given half decent story lines - there would appear to be a growing fan base for this couple -

No one said it would be abrupt or even a cancellation, and no one said it would be constantly awkward and tension filled. I'm sure some readers would be lost and some gained just as any other book, but I think as a story and direction it have interesting potential.

I remember when Soule was first promoting the book he said that actual relationship was more akin to Star Wars' Han and Leia in that it's in there but it isn't the main point. If that still hold true then I don't see why it could be the idea of looking at them as friends after the fact. In the end it's really just different strokes for different folks.

[Superlad93]

Far too soon for a break up, I think. I may not be that into the pairing, but they've already committed to it so I'd like some more stories.

So would I. I never said I wanted to see it happen today, tomorrow, or even next year. I just said I'd like to see that story explored properly.

In the mean time I'd like the same fun romps that everyone else wants (if anyone remembers I used to advocate more fun adventures with these characters in this book). I'd like to see more character study stories, and an actual thematic clashing of these characters backgrounds. Taking the day for themselves to watch the supernovas go off in galaxy 12, a Clark Kent reporter and Wonder Woman team up to solve a who done it mystery. Fun stuff.

I don't think we get enough of what the world has to say about them dating. What about paradigm shift and we morph the book into a celebrity gossip column for a few issues. Cast Superman and Wonder Woman and B and Jay, Kanye and Kim, and Brad and Angelina. Pull back the camera a bit so we get a Marvels (the book) style look at these super celebrities. Then maybe have an issue where it's just made up of the misconceptions that people have of the two as a couple in a pretty meta way. Give each misconception picture and form too. Then maybe end it off with Superman and Wonder Woman just sleeping in or having lunch on the moon away from it all.

[hellacre]

For something like that they'd be better off just canceling the book and dealing with the fall out in JL or somewhere else. Because you're sure as hell not appealing to the current fans of the book by doing a permanent break up storyline and tuning in each month for post-break up tension and awkwardness. That's a big fat pass for me.

Exactly. The bulk of supporters of the book are more than likely people who WANT them together. Not on board because they will break them up down the line. Many new fans especially have said what it the point of DC giving us a relationship only to say yeah we writing them with the goal to break them up. It's pointless them spending money on it and they are actually really not giving it a chance. Like you say if people want to see them break up and become friends do it in SM and JL. I won't waste my money on a book with an end game aimed to appease the people who want the traditional status quo and many others have said the same. (Marvel actually explored Scott and Emma for many years.) Clark and Diana derseves that at the very least given the slow nature comic timelines. I am not averse to even a separation but reconciliation storyline etc. I don't see how a SM/WW book with them as a couple and with its own tone would affect Action and Superman if they writing their own storylines etc. Clark can have his adventures there with his traditional supporting cast as he always did. Only tie ins and crossovers would affect that which as we see people tend to get a bit fed up in as the sm/ww book especially of all the bks gets the most derailed and loses its focus. The sm/ww book needs cement its own tone.

[Lax]

For something like that they'd be better off just canceling the book and dealing with the fall out in JL or somewhere else. Because you're sure as hell not appealing to the current fans of the book by doing a permanent break up storyline and tuning in each month for post-break up tension and awkwardness. That's a big fat pass for me.

Exactly. The bulk of supporters of the book are more than likely people who WANT them together. Not on board because they will break them up down the line. Many new fans especially have said what it the point of DC giving us a relationship only to say yeah we writing them with the goal to break them up. It's pointless them spending money on it and they are actually really not giving it a chance. Like you say if people want to see them break up and become friends do it in SM and JL. I won't waste my money on a book with an end game aimed to appease the people who want the traditional status quo and many others have said the same. (Marvel actually explored Scott and Emma for many years.) Clark and Diana derseves that at the very least given the slow nature comic timelines. I am not averse to even a separation but reconciliation storyline etc. I don't see how a SM/WW book with them as a couple and with its own tone would affect Action and Superman if they writing their own storylines etc. Clark can have his adventures there with his traditional supporting cast as he always did. Only tie ins and crossovers would affect that which as we see people tend to get a bit fed up in as the sm/ww book especially of all the bks gets the most derailed and loses its focus. The sm/ww book needs cement its own tone.

Thing is, I'm an actual fan of the actual pairing in and of itself. It's managed to spark my interest to the point of actually paying for comic books on the DC side, I'm not paying for a break up and I'd have no way of knowing whether or not a separation would be permanent so that's out as well. Neither of those things are a positive direction for a book that wouldn't even exist were it not for this relationship.

My interest in this book is not as an extension of JL, Action, Superman or Wonder Woman. Yet the irony is that even though this pairing has an entire book dedicated toward it the relationship hasn't been thoroughly explored because of the nigh-constant sidetracking done by crossovers. It's reached a point where even though this title is 20+ issues deep it still has very little identity of it's own.

Thus a positive direction is simple, all DC needs to do is top treating it like an extension of other titles. This is not Action Comics 2.0, this is not Wonder Woman 2.0 and it's not Justice League 2.0 either. This is Superman & Wonder Woman's title, treat it as such. To this day the highest point of the entire series was issue #6 and it's no coincidence that was the last issue before the first crossover came along.

I prefer Pak and Soule over Tomasi but a new writer cannot fix this as crossovers stifle creativity by the very nature of writers collaborating with other writers. Yes, some writers can work around this handicap better than others but at the core it's a problem independent of the individual doing the writing.

Two years, two crossovers, that has got to change moving forward.

[hellacre]

Thing is, I'm an actual fan of the actual pairing in and of itself. It's managed to spark my interest to the point of actually paying for comic books on the DC side, I'm not paying for a break up and I'd have no way of knowing whether or not a separation would be permanent so that's out as well. Neither of those things are a positive direction for a book that wouldn't even exist were it not for this relationship.

My interest in this book is not as an extension of JL, Action, Superman or Wonder Woman. Yet the irony is that even though this pairing has an entire book dedicated toward it the relationship hasn't been thoroughly explored because of the nigh-constant sidetracking done by crossovers. It's reached a point where even though this title is 20+ issues deep it still has very little identity of it's own.

Thus a positive direction is simple, all DC needs to do is top treating it like an extension of other titles. This is not Action Comics 2.0, this is not Wonder Woman 2.0 and it's not Justice League 2.0 either. This is Superman & Wonder Woman's title, treat it as such. To this day the highest point of the entire series was issue #6 and it's no coincidence that was the last issue before the first crossover came along.

I prefer Pak and Soule over Tomasi but a new writer cannot fix this as crossovers stifle creativity by the very nature of writers collaborating with other writers. Yes, some writers can work around this handicap better than others but at the core it's a problem independent of the individual doing the writing.

Two years, two crossovers, that has got to change moving forward.

You make great points about them just treating it as if it is an extension of SM. It began with Doomed...eased up during the Circe arc but that was rushed to start Truth which is another tie in. While I do like what Peter/Mahnke are doing with Truth given it is part of a story being driven by Yang and Pak...it be nice for this book to just do what Soule/Tomasi did. Just have its own storyline, deal with its own plot and villains etc. Tomasi did good stuff with Batman & Robin keeping it in continuity but not having to worry what other Bat writers were doing. You can see the difference in the reviews for Power Couple vs War & Peace collections. Power Couple has gotten very good reviews from critics and readers if one goes to sites like Amazon, goodreads etc. While War and Peace has gotten mixed reviews because of the confusing nature due to the crossover event. The single issues by Soule themselves were fine but if you pick up War and Peace after enjoying Power Couple, as a new reader and you know nothing about Doomed, you will be so damned confused. Tomasi's Truth you can follow and the characterization of both Clark and Diana I enjoy. And Doug's art looks amazing since the Circe arc. The inker and colorist finally able to do justice to his pencils. His Clark and Diana has a sexiness that is important I think in the art for a book whose heart is the relationship. You have to have an artist who can not only deliver big action but have the two characters have intimacy and chemistry. eg SM/WW 18 and 19 nailed that.

[Lax]

You make great points about them just treating it as if it is an extension of SM. It began with Doomed...eased up during the Circe arc but that was rushed to start Truth which is another tie in. While I do like what Peter/Mahnke are doing with Truth given it is part of a story being driven by Yang and Pak...it be nice for this book to just do what Soule/Tomasi did. Just have its own storyline, deal with its own plot and villains etc. Tomasi did good stuff with Batman & Robin keeping it in continuity but not having to worry what other Bat writers were doing. You can see the difference in the reviews for Power Couple vs War & Peace collections. Power Couple has gotten very good reviews from critics and readers if one goes to sites like Amazon, goodreads etc. While War and Peace has gotten mixed reviews because of the confusing nature due to the crossover event. The single issues by Soule themselves were fine but if you pick up War and Peace after enjoying Power Couple, as a new reader and you know nothing about Doomed, you will be so damned confused. Tomasi's Truth you can follow and the characterization of both Clark and Diana I enjoy. And Doug's art looks amazing since the Circe arc. The inker and colorist finally able to do justice to his pencils. His Clark and Diana has a sexiness that is important I think in the art for a book whose heart is the relationship. You have to have an artist who can not only deliver big action but have the two characters have intimacy and chemistry. eg SM/WW 18 and 19 nailed that.

Come to think of it, the very first Superman & Wonder Woman annual was essentially a Future's End crossover for an alternate timeline that probably won't matter beyond that event.

So that actually makes it three crossovers in two years... urgh.

[ManSinha]

Thing is, I'm an actual fan of the actual pairing in and of itself. It's managed to spark my interest to the point of actually paying for comic books on the DC side, I'm not paying for a break up and I'd have no way of knowing whether or not a separation would be permanent so that's out as well. Neither of those things are a positive direction for a book that wouldn't even exist were it not for this relationship.

I am in the same boat metaphorically speaking - I had literally stopped buying comic books other than the JL title since COIE but this pairing and this book sparked my interest again. I am an unabashed fan of the pairing and its potential - even with the suspension of belief that we commonly allude to - one can see these two close friends and long lived beings ending up with each other so why not start now - plus I have to admit the concept of a Phantom Stranger like powered being as a result of this coupling is very tantalizing in terms of story telling potential - being somewhat old school I wonder how someone like Curt Swan would have approached this book