ACTION COMICS #45 Preview/Discussion

[InSavnity]

Superman is about saving people, not leaving them to die. That's what the "real" Superman has always been about.

I'm starting to notice... It's like Man of Steel Jonathan's (very misinterpreted) teaching was ultimately internalised, just not by Clark, by some comic book readers instead.

[Tayswift]

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And on what account should he have listened to a guy who just participated in the kidnapping and torture on entire families, including children, to turn them into creatures of destruction? If "violence isn't the solution", what should he have done here, exactly? Not attack the crazy group called the Supremacists while they were torturing people in front of him? Leave the prisonners to their fates? Randomly assume that this particular guy isn't lying despite obviously hiding the fact there's someone in the cell behind him?
Superman is about saving people, not leaving them to die. That's what the "real" Superman has always been about.

No, I want superman to save those people. but listen to someone can be important, what if he gave important information for him. But superman just punched him on the face

[Sacred Knight]

Listening is not important to him when he sees a little girl frightened and crying for help in some kind of torture device. Your insistence on defending them and admonishing Superman for going in punching is inexplicable. Superman does not, nor ever should, give a damn about being politically correct or whatever in those types of cirucumstances. ESPECIALLY with children. If a child is being harmed, and Superman sees it, its your ass, plain and simple.

[Ascended]

Well. This thread has been fun.

This was easily one of the best issues of TRUTH to date.

Seriously people, what's not to love?

Superman is shown as being extremely resourceful and intelligent. He's set up his own, off-the-grid headquarters, from which he is successfully unraveling the mystery of why several separate groups, including the American government (both State and Federal levels) are making a concerted effort to go after him. The combined resources at his enemies' disposal is staggering, and they've dealt him just about as serious a blow as anyone ever has, in any continuity.

The tension and severity of the situation is clear, as Superman immediately destroys all of this hard work in order to keep his activities hidden and protect Hiro, who acted like a complete idiot. For real, everyone saying Clark should have been nicer to Hiro? Let's not forget that Hiro is the one who is putting himself, Clark, and Clark's efforts in jeopardy by not taking this seriously. Could Clark have said something like "Trust me Hiro, you need to leave. Now."? Sure. But if you've been paying attention to Hiro's character you'll know that wont work. Do you really think this kid is going to listen to that? No. He's an idiot who wants to turn this incredibly secret workroom into a damn toy. Hurting his feelings is the best and quickest way to protect him and keep Clark from being discovered. And the little fool deserved some harsh words too. Anyone who thinks Superman is always nice doesnt know the character very well. There's a reason the song says not to tug on his cape.

And then we get to see Superman sneak into a high security building. And I dont know if anyone has realized this, but he walked in the front door, pretending to be a regular, unassuming worker. He had a minor disguise covering his face but otherwise relied on his own acting ability and the assumptions-of-context of those around him. Have you figured it out? These villains took Clark Kent away from Superman, and Superman used Clark Kent to bring the fight back to them.

And anytime Superman beats the snot out of nazi bastards is a good day. There is never *not* a good reason to hit nazi bastards.

[Ascended]

No, I want superman to save those people. but listen to someone can be important, what if he gave important information for him. But superman just punched him on the face

Let me make sure I'm getting you right here, because sometimes I feel like I must be misreading your posts. English isnt your first language, as I understand it.

You're saying that Superman should have let known racists (and yes, the supremacists are nazi-style racists, there's no debate about that. It's established in print. This might be a language thing?), whose organization is responsible for attempted mass murder, continue to torture people, including children, on the possibility that one of them might have told him something important. This, of course, is right inside their headquarters where they store all of their computers and research and notes and memos and sensitive data.

Let's recap.

Established, non-debatable racists. Attempted mass murderers. Cultists who worship a plasma god. People who have, in the past, proven completely capable of and willing to fight Superman rather than surrender or attempt diplomatic resolution.

Innocent children being tortured, experimented on, and traumatized. The involvement of an unknown but dangerous element (the shadow stuff). Let's reiterate that; Children. Being hurt. Badly. By racists.

All of their computers and research is present. This is their laboratory, deep within the most secure facility we've seen in this story yet. Any sensitive data they have is very, very likely within the room itself, and if not, is likely in a nearby office.

Superman has proven, in this issue, that's he's quite computer savvy. We know that he's already hacked some impressive programs, which is also mentioned in this very issue.

And you think this was not a situation that warranted a violent response?

[bholderman]

And anytime Superman beats the snot out of nazi bastards is a good day. There is never *not* a good reason to hit nazi bastards.

"Illinois Nazis, I hate Illinois Nazis."

Great issue, this version of Superman is really growing on me. Scott Kolins artwork is great. Clark in disguise goes all the way back to 1938.

[ManSinha]

I was reading the reviews at Comic Book Roundup and they are a mixed bag - from those that praise every action that Superman took in this volume to those calling it the weakest Action Comics in the series yet - interesting how different people find different things to praise or pillory

[HsssH]

Isn't it always the case? I wasn't around when All Star Superman was being published but I wouldn't be surprised if lots of people had something to complain about that too.

[bholderman]

I was reading the reviews at Comic Book Roundup and they are a mixed bag - from those that praise every action that Superman took in this volume to those calling it the weakest Action Comics in the series yet - interesting how different people find different things to praise or pillory

I think it might go hand in hand with the other "real Superman" thread. Everyone has their own preferred Superman recipe and if that isn't what is on the page, then it's crap. My preferred Superman wears red underwear over his tights, but Action Comics is doing a very good job with the current iteration as opposed to the Superman title, which isn't bad, it just doesn't seem to be hitting all the right cylinders properly.

[Blue Light]

But superman just punched him on the face

Superman punched a jerk in the face. His creators literally made him because they wanted him to punch jerks in the face.

If he existed in the real world, what would you want him to do about ISIS? Go have a nice cup of tea and a chat about not torturing men to death and selling women as slaves?

[Tayswift]

Let me make sure I'm getting you right here, because sometimes I feel like I must be misreading your posts. English isnt your first language, as I understand it.

You're saying that Superman should have let known racists (and yes, the supremacists are nazi-style racists, there's no debate about that. It's established in print. This might be a language thing?), whose organization is responsible for attempted mass murder, continue to torture people, including children, on the possibility that one of them might have told him something important. This, of course, is right inside their headquarters where they store all of their computers and research and notes and memos and sensitive data.

Let's recap.

Established, non-debatable racists. Attempted mass murderers. Cultists who worship a plasma god. People who have, in the past, proven completely capable of and willing to fight Superman rather than surrender or attempt diplomatic resolution.

Innocent children being tortured, experimented on, and traumatized. The involvement of an unknown but dangerous element (the shadow stuff). Let's reiterate that; Children. Being hurt. Badly. By racists.

All of their computers and research is present. This is their laboratory, deep within the most secure facility we've seen in this story yet. Any sensitive data they have is very, very likely within the room itself, and if not, is likely in a nearby office.

Superman has proven, in this issue, that's he's quite computer savvy. We know that he's already hacked some impressive programs, which is also mentioned in this very issue.

And you think this was not a situation that warranted a violent response?

what I wrote made sense when I wrote it quickly.

I wrote that I wanted superman to save the people they were torturing, but I don't think it is wrong if superman saved those nazists from theirselves like showing the good way of life instead of always punching them.

anyway i'm impressed that superman just let those supremacist take those infected people, what he thought would happen? govern or someone would test these people, because the infection is serious bussiness.

a guy come to alert him to be away from the infected, and them superman go all angry punching him.
then he sees lee and get infected. so brilliant

[Sacred Knight]

Interesting that at the NYCC panel, Pak really makes it sound like Vandal Savage is the mastermind of this whole affair. At the very least, he has a vastly larger role than I thought he would.

It doesn't sound like he'll have his powers back yet by #50 though, which is a bummer. I just don't think it has that much left in the tank unless the story around it really fires up big time.

[ManSinha]

It doesn't sound like he'll have his powers back yet by #50 though, which is a bummer. I just don't think it has that much left in the tank unless the story around it really fires up big time.

I think they are going to squeeze another arc of getting his powers back

[manofsteel1979]

Interesting that at the NYCC panel, Pak really makes it sound like Vandal Savage is the mastermind of this whole affair. At the very least, he has a vastly larger role than I thought he would.

It doesn't sound like he'll have his powers back yet by #50 though, which is a bummer. I just don't think it has that much left in the tank unless the story around it really fires up big time.

The Vandal Savage connection is a call back to the short Early 80's ACTION run by Marv Wolfman and Gill Kane. Vandal was being used as a major thorn in Superman side for a few issues, and it was dropped nearly as soon as their run ended.

I am also a little fed up with the power loss arc myself,but as long as the resolution of this thing is good, it will be worth it. Pak's ACTION continues strongly, and BAT/SUPES ans SUPES/WW are quality. I just hope the jump forward in time to link up with the other books and a new artist will break Yang's SUPERMAN out of it's mediocrity.

[Ascended]

The Vandal Savage connection is a call back to the short Early 80's ACTION run by Marv Wolfman and Gill Kane. Vandal was being used as a major thorn in Superman side for a few issues, and it was dropped nearly as soon as their run ended.

I am also a little fed up with the power loss arc myself,but as long as the resolution of this thing is good, it will be worth it. Pak's ACTION continues strongly, and BAT/SUPES ans SUPES/WW are quality. I just hope the jump forward in time to link up with the other books and a new artist will break Yang's SUPERMAN out of it's mediocrity.

I think the biggest failing of Yang's Superman is the villain. In Action, we've had the mysterious shadow monsters. They're not ground breaking but they're fun and effective. We've had the US government's Suicide Squad and Subterranea in the team-up books, and they're both good foils with a history to draw on (not much history in Subterranea's case, but what they do have has been used well and builds directly off of Pak's early issues). But Yang's Superman has HORDR, and all in all, its a pretty terrible organization. Bad name, lousy visuals, and their goals are pretty nebulous. What are they doing, gathering intel to blackmail people with? Don't we already have the government for that in this story? What's the point of having them involved here, what do they hope to gain from working with these other factions? Aside from some intel Lois already leaked, what do they offer? Its that vagueness that leaves the Superman title feeling a little lackluster. In the other books we have a clear and present threat with very real, attainable goals. HORDR's purpose here doesnt seem like it really fits.

Past that though, I think Yang's run has been pretty decent. He's clearly done his research and there's a real "classic" vibe to his work. Lots of subtlety too, where there's a lot happening that isnt stated outright. I have a hunch that Yang will end up as one of those writers who we dont really appreciate at the time, but down the road we'll be saying that he was one of the writers who really got it.