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  1. #31
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    I'm good either/all ways, really. I like a Superman who ages super-slow, but I also like seeing old Superman or Superman who transforms into some other iteration, like 1M Supes. I do believe in Superman resurrection, just like I believe clapping can bring fairies back to life. Jon Kent had a heart attack and went into the deadlands and got his son back. We saw it on panel; I believe it. When Clark floats back towards sunlight, at the end of Terra Occulta, I want him to revive. Dead is dead, but that tautology doesn't mean much for a mighty man of miracles like Supes.

    But, I'm also game for the idea that Superman dies, if the story warrants it.
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  2. #32
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Same.

    If there's a good story behind it, then I'm game. I'm a fan of the Adventure's of Superman story where he outlives the universe and guides the last of humanity into the birth of a new one. The dude got to tell stories to the final god living on his deathbed, split himself apart to act as sentries, and hold and race the end of the universe.

    I'm also a fan of the doddering old Superman who watches the LOSH fly above him. He now actually needs the Clark Kent glasses it seems. I'd as be into a Superman who only lived a few years more than the fittest humans so long as the story is good. Resurrection and maybe even reincarnation would be an interesting take if the mythic take is more your thing.

    There are so many ways one can take this. I'd really like DC to get more loosey goosey and nonlinear with their Superman stories. I'd like to be just as invested in a Superman from the far future as I am with the present day Superman. A writer is looking for a continuity with a little less red tape then just take us to the future and have a ball.

  3. #33
    Senior Member ManSinha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    There are so many ways one can take this. I'd really like DC to get more loosey goosey and nonlinear with their Superman stories. I'd like to be just as invested in a Superman from the far future as I am with the present day Superman. A writer is looking for a continuity with a little less red tape then just take us to the future and have a ball.
    Agreed - probably if his age is held constant - there may be interval stories of centuries where he left earth in safe hands to have adventures elsewhere

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by twincast View Post
    Doubly so since it oddly enough almost never applies to any other Kryptonian; other than a story or two they always disappear just like Bruce and everyone else.
    That's a good point - we always see Kal around in the far future, but where is Kara, or even planet Rokyn?
    Kara at least died in pre-crisis (or so it seemed - wans't Sensor Girl from the LSH supposed to be Kara, alive again but bereft of most powers except her super-senses?) and wans't around post-crisis until 2004 or so, but what about today?

  5. #35
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    We don't read about the adventures of any Kryptonian, we read about Superman, he gets to do things others don't.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Thunders! View Post
    We don't read about the adventures of any Kryptonian, we read about Superman, he gets to do things others don't.
    Except Superman isn't the only Kryptonian and I don't see why he should be able to do things even other Kryotonians can't.

    And really, what can you do with an immortal Superman you can't do with a mortal one? Hang with the LoSH? We have time travel for that. See his influence in the future? We don't need him to be alive for that.

  7. #37
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Except Superman isn't the only Kryptonian and I don't see why he should be able to do things even other Kryotonians can't.

    And really, what can you do with an immortal Superman you can't do with a mortal one? Hang with the LoSH? We have time travel for that. See his influence in the future? We don't need him to be alive for that.
    One thing you can't do without an immortal Superman is tell stories about the immortal Superman. And there's nothing that says that Supergirl also doesn't survive. Plus, by that logic, why don't we read about Tales of Krypton, or the Adventures of Kandor. We don't because it's Superman that is exceptional even among other Kryptonians. He's not just any Kryptonian just like Robin is not just any acrobat.
    Last edited by Johnny Thunders!; 10-12-2015 at 04:10 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Thunders! View Post
    One thing you can't do without an immortal Superman is tell stories about the immortal Superman. And there's nothing that says that Supergirl also doesn't survive. Plus, by that logic, why don't we read about Tales of Krypton, or the Adventures of Kandor. We don't because it's Superman that is exceptional even among other Kryptonians. He's not just any Kryptonian just like Robin is not just any acrobat.
    Actually there were Tales of Krypton back in the day. And I would have loved some Adventures of Kandor (besides the Nightwing & Flamebird ones).

    But when it comes to the immortality stuff might it be that Superman is simply the only one who has the powers? The majority of Kryptonians don't live constantly under a yellow sun and thus don't get the benefit of it's life-extending power-up. So on Earth-1 Superman is still running around long after Van-Zee has died of old age on Rokyn because Kal is on Earth fully powered for those centuries while Van is not.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    Actually there were Tales of Krypton back in the day. And I would have loved some Adventures of Kandor (besides the Nightwing & Flamebird ones).

    But when it comes to the immortality stuff might it be that Superman is simply the only one who has the powers? The majority of Kryptonians don't live constantly under a yellow sun and thus don't get the benefit of it's life-extending power-up. So on Earth-1 Superman is still running around long after Van-Zee has died of old age on Rokyn because Kal is on Earth fully powered for those centuries while Van is not.
    I definitely remember Tales from Krypton and Kandor, but I just think it's an odd question. There were other scientists on Krypton, why read about Jor Els son at all? I think the Superman brand has been so degraded that now we see him as just some Kryptonian. Maybe immortality is hard, Kandorians and other Kryptonians can't take the mental strain and they expose themselves to gold k at some point to live normal lives. Maybe they all live and decided to travel to parallel universes to make sure there was a super person in every reality. Maybe one by one they go mad and Clark finds he has to sentence them to the phantom zone after huge disasters caused by insane super people. Maybe his upbringing with the Kents is the only thing that makes being superman possible. in the end Ma and Pa Kent raised the only Superman 1,000,000. Lara and Jor El knew what they were doing! I don't think the legend of Superman should just be about his biology. Not all orphaned rich kids become Batman.
    Last edited by Johnny Thunders!; 10-12-2015 at 07:29 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Thunders! View Post
    I definitely remember Tales from Krypton and Kandor, but I just think it's an odd question. There were other scientists on Krypton, why read about Jor Els son at all? I think the Superman brand has been so degraded that now we see him as just some Kryptonian. Maybe immortality is hard, Kandorians and other Kryptonians can't take the mental strain and they expose themselves to gold k at some point to live normal lives. Maybe they all live and decided to travel to parallel universes to make sure there was a super person in every reality. Maybe one by one they go mad and Clark finds he has to sentence them to the phantom zone after huge disasters caused by insane super people. Maybe his upbringing with the Kents is the only thing that makes being superman possible. in the end Ma and Pa Kent raised the only Superman 1,000,000. Lara and Jor El knew what they were doing! I don't think the legend of Superman should just be about his biology. Not all orphaned rich kids become Batman.
    How does not immortal Superman=Batman? Why does him aging and dying mean his legend is only about his biology?

  11. #41
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    How does not immortal Superman=Batman? Why does him aging and dying mean his legend is only about his biology?
    I thought you were suggesting that if Superman is immortal, than all Kryptonians should be immortal, as if being Superman was just his powers, just his biology. I'm saying that he has had several unique experiences that distinguish him from any other Kryptonian. Just like Batman is not just an orphaned rich kid, he has had a lifetime of experiences that make him Batman. And like I wrote maybe all Kryptonians are potentially immortal but Superman is the only one that can handle it.

    We don't read about any random Kryptonian, we read about Superman and that's the one we follow as we read about an immortal Superman, who very well could encounter other ageless Kryptonians (Kryptonians that age to a level of maturity where aging then slows to a geologic crawl.)

    Also, I want to read about how Superman handles watching Lois and the rest age and die. What does he do when he sees generation after generation of heroes and villains? I'm all for time travel but there are stories to be told of a Superman that lives beyond his peers. It doesn't have to be fair, he's Superman.

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    Last edited by Johnny Thunders!; 10-12-2015 at 10:09 AM.

  12. #42
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Well, the answer to this question is really simple. Assuming that Clark is long lived/immortal and other kryptonians arent, the answer is because he's friggin Superman. There's no deeper answer required. Superman does things no other being, even other kryptonians, can do. He withstands pressures no one else can. He's Superman, and if he's not capable of these things, if he's not made from sterner stuff, if he's not beyond the rest of us, then he's just another dude with powers and a cape. Its this exact mindset that lead the character into a low point in the 00's. He's not just a farmboy with tremendous powers; he's the next level of human consciousness.

    He's got an X-factor no one else does. Maybe its the process of his absorbing yellow sunlight. Maybe its the very young age that process began. Maybe its his upbringing and the effect his brain has had on his biology (studies are getting deeper into the relationship between mind and body). Maybe its the various sources of power he's been exposed to, from the Big Bang to higher dimensions like New Genesis. It could be a lot of things. Maybe he's just a kryptonian mutant. But regardless, Superman is meant to be exceptional and I find attempts to ground him, at best, counter to what he's supposed to be and at worst, systemic of a larger social movement to embrace mediocrity because being exceptional is hard and unfair by definition.

    Maybe Kara was long lived but she sacrificed herself for the greater good. Maybe she was reckless and got herself killed by a sun eater. Maybe she's alive millions of years from now, but she's living somewhere remote from even Clark's ability to visit, like a pocket dimension kept inside the mind of a little girl, or ancient Krypton (before it blew up, obviously).

    The point, for me, is that Superman is the Man of Tomorrow. Most characters can, and should, get a proper ending. Somewhere along the line, they die or retire or whatever. But Superman, as an embodiment of human potential, should endure as long as humanity does, and always be a step ahead, illuminating the path for us.
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  13. #43
    Senior Member ManSinha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well, the answer to this question is really simple. Assuming that Clark is long lived/immortal and other kryptonians arent, the answer is because he's friggin Superman. There's no deeper answer required. Superman does things no other being, even other kryptonians, can do. He withstands pressures no one else can. He's Superman, and if he's not capable of these things, if he's not made from sterner stuff, if he's not beyond the rest of us, then he's just another dude with powers and a cape. Its this exact mindset that lead the character into a low point in the 00's. He's not just a farmboy with tremendous powers; he's the next level of human consciousness.

    He's got an X-factor no one else does. Maybe its the process of his absorbing yellow sunlight. Maybe its the very young age that process began. Maybe its his upbringing and the effect his brain has had on his biology (studies are getting deeper into the relationship between mind and body). Maybe its the various sources of power he's been exposed to, from the Big Bang to higher dimensions like New Genesis. It could be a lot of things. Maybe he's just a kryptonian mutant. But regardless, Superman is meant to be exceptional and I find attempts to ground him, at best, counter to what he's supposed to be and at worst, systemic of a larger social movement to embrace mediocrity because being exceptional is hard and unfair by definition.

    The point, for me, is that Superman is the Man of Tomorrow. Most characters can, and should, get a proper ending. Somewhere along the line, they die or retire or whatever. But Superman, as an embodiment of human potential, should endure as long as humanity does, and always be a step ahead, illuminating the path for us.

    Hear Hear!!

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