Kal-El - Immortal or not?

[Dispenser Of Truth]

I'm okay with Superman aging, slowly, in alternate takes (especially in the likes of Kingdom Come where it's symbolically significant), and I see the New 52 version as aging over the millenia for reasons I don't entirely understand myself. But generally speaking, I prefer 'classic' versions of Superman don't age that much, if at all. It's actually part of the reason I don't see the Earth Two Kal-L as 'actually' being the original Siegel/Shuster Superman: that's not just 'a' Superman, that's THE Superman, and that Superman of Action Comics #1 is energy and playfulness and power and utterly unstoppable, he'd never get old or even slow down as long as there was something left he had to do.

Mostly what Ascended said, as per usual.

[Slaughter]

I don't like some of the implications of immortal Superman, through:

1) All the adventures we have seen? Just the beginning of something spanning millenia. In other words, we have been reading a extended origin story. That means anyone not Superman is pretty much meaningless in the abyss of sheer time.

2) It makes you think that Superman is pretty much wasting time with the whole Clark Kent thing, rather than doing his best bang-up job to ressurect Krypton and live amongst immortals. Lois will die, and Clark Kent will probably "die" right after her.

3) Two words: Heat Death.

I do think that Grant Morrison did well dealing with those aspects in DC One Million.

[ManSinha]

I don't like some of the implications of immortal Superman, through:

1) All the adventures we have seen? Just the beginning of something spanning millenia. In other words, we have been reading a extended origin story. That means anyone not Superman is pretty much meaningless in the abyss of sheer time.

2) It makes you think that Superman is pretty much wasting time with the whole Clark Kent thing, rather than doing his best bang-up job to ressurect Krypton and live amongst immortals. Lois will die, and Clark Kent will probably "die" right after her.

3) Two words: Heat Death.

I do think that Grant Morrison did well dealing with those aspects in DC One Million.

Well - you can look upon it as an extended origin story - or a mere continuation of the "facade" innocently started by Jonathan and Martha Kent - and at the time no one (especially Clark himself) knew about his destiny

[phantom1592]

I don't like any implication of immortality or even an extended life of aging slowly. Not a fan of that at all.

First of all it should have been going on from the beginning. Which disrupts the entire Smallville concept or having high school friends like Lana and Pete.

Second, it messes with the idea of growing old with Lois or whoever.

Third, If he didn't 'stop aging' till he got all of his powers (depending on the origin...) He'd be continually 18ish and that's just too young for Superman. He needs to be a 'Man' who commands respect.... not a kid in a costume.

Fourth, I don't really see it ADDING anything to the character. The future will forever be the future, and the Present is where the books live. So Superman is effectively as immortal as Batman, Wonder Woman or anyone who is the star of their own book. None of them will ever be shown of dying of old age.... and for a character as hard to hurt as Superman just hand waving it as 'Oh he can't die' steals what little drama there is in slugfest.

Finally, it makes any idea of a secret Identity COMPLETLY ridiculous.... as opposed to simply being 'far fetched' or 'unlikely' as we're used to. If Clark doesn't age with the rest of the world... how is he supposed to hide that??

[Johnny Thunders!]

Superman lives beyond Krypton, beyond Smallville, beyond Metropolis, and eventually beyond Earth. I think it's Luthor's Gift where Clatk roams the stars, doing good deeds, sometimes anonymously I think.

imagine if a planet beyond our solar system tells stories of the bespectacled quiet stranger that overthrew a tyrant, stopped a flood, saved a drowning child. And then left with a wink and a smile.

Even Superman 1,000,O00 adds so much myth with an ageless Superman. Those past friendships matter just like the Kents or the Els. And he's not pretending to be Clark or Superman. Clark Kent is Superman.

[ManSinha]

Superman lives beyond Krypton, beyond Smallville, beyond Metropolis, and eventually beyond Earth. I think it's Luthor's Gift where Clatk roams the stars, doing good deeds, sometimes anonymously I think.

imagine if a planet beyond our solar system tells stories of the bespectacled quiet stranger that overthrew a tyrant, stopped a flood, saved a drowning child. And then left with a wink and a smile.

Even Superman 1,000,O00 adds so much myth with an ageless Superman. Those past friendships matter just like the Kents or the Els. And he's not pretending to be Clark or Superman. Clark Kent is Superman.

Very nicely put!!

[Johnny Thunders!]

thanks! I found some Luthors Gift quotes:

"They’re all gone now: Lois, Lex, all the presidents, kings, popes and saints we ever knew. Even I’m gone, careening through space like a self-sentenced Lucifer in eternal free-fall, looking for whatever made me happy in those days when I frolicked on Earth righting wrongs and stunting sociological development by my very presence. Now the millions idolize new mortals whose deeds and discoveries no doubt overshadow the meager accomplishments of my Twentieth Century friends. And certainly somewhere among the human community today there is another brilliant and beautiful young woman or man whose comfort with life in a giant shadow inspires the mortal great to accomplishment. I hope there is someone like that today, and I send that person my best wishes and my pity: there is no more Superman to take you away from all of that.

I am gifted and cursed to remember everything: every nuance, every implication, every tilt of head or limb. Nearly a century after that day we met, I knelt beside her bed, held her hand and brought her back from the dead three times. I really believe I did that, and that anyone even without such temporal powers as mine can do it as well. She was a hundred twenty-four and the only original organs she carried were her brain and her stomach. Her skin, even though it was soaked in silicon, was sagging and flaccid. It had no shape of its own over brittle bones. But her eyes still shone, reflecting the light of genetically reproduced optic nerves inside. She was just used up like the one-hoss shay. Three times her spirit drifted away and her body approached the pallor of death. I have seen life leave often, and occasionally I have seen it return. Each time this happened to her I would take her hand, let my own bend to its shape and contain it gently in mine. Then I would meditate on her, and love her, and need her. And life returned."


Anyways, there is lots of story potential with an ageless Superman, every 10,00O years he returns to New Genesis and ponders godhhood, in the 30th century he travels to the Phantom Zone and explores hidden realms with lost civilizations, every 20,000 years he returns to Earth and checks in on all the Superpeople that now protect the solar system. He becomes the unknown soldier of the New Justice League.

I miss when Superman time traveled under his own power. It makes time seem less intangible and more like a different space that Superman can move through.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Just because it's been brought up a few times, there's a difference between aging and maturing. He could very well reach adulthood even as an immortal without growing old later.

[jimmy]

I'd rather they play up the durability more so than any healing factor. Make him similar to classic Juggernaut from marvel.

Good point - They definitely should play up the durability much more so, as well as showing his potential greater mental aspects.

I prefer a Superman who doesn't age

Yes, he should never age nor even show it; like he did in "kingdom come" with grey hair at the temples!

The only alternative to immortality would be to tie his life span to a Star - For example; our nearest star/sun "Sol" which is currently in its "Main Sequence" of middle age is rated about 12 billion years of life - that means there is only another 6-7 Billions years left of nuclear fuel, give or take!

As for the immortality thing.....I don't think he needs to be "properly" immortal like Vandal Savage (unable to die at all), nor immune to aging like Wonder Woman (will never die of old age but could still die from a severe injury).

If immortality is good enough for the likes of Vandal Savage and Wonder Woman, then it should be good enough for the Superman the first superhero!

I miss when Superman time traveled under his own power. It makes time seem less intangible and more like a different space that Superman can move through.

So do I

[Ascended]

I don't like some of the implications of immortal Superman, through:

1) All the adventures we have seen? Just the beginning of something spanning millenia. In other words, we have been reading a extended origin story. That means anyone not Superman is pretty much meaningless in the abyss of sheer time.

2) It makes you think that Superman is pretty much wasting time with the whole Clark Kent thing, rather than doing his best bang-up job to ressurect Krypton and live amongst immortals. Lois will die, and Clark Kent will probably "die" right after her.

3) Two words: Heat Death.

I do think that Grant Morrison did well dealing with those aspects in DC One Million.

Well, two sides to every coin, am I right?

1) Isnt everyone meaningless in the abyss of sheer time? And I love the idea that everything we've seen Superman do to this point, all the battles across all the realms of existence, is still just his "early days". It magnifies the scope of things: Think Superman fighting Brainiac 13 and Darkseid at the moment of the Big Bang is impressive? Just wait until you see what he's doing a thousand years from now. And thanks to time travel, we can always check in on older versions of Superman, or visit him in his era. Jason Aaron did this in his early Thor run, and I thought it worked quite well.

2) Clark is a part of who he is. Just because he'll outlive his human peers and the age of Clark Kent, the disguise, will have to be dealt with at a later time doesnt mean that Kal's time as Clark isnt as important as his time as Superman. This is the guy who, in various continuities, brought down LexCorp and Galaxy, shed light on countless corrupt politicians and businessmen, and improved the living conditions for many poor people in Metropolis and beyond. Clark's death will have to be faked at some point, and ample amounts of make up applied to create the illusion of age, but that in and of itself is a fun idea.

3) Well, if he dies of super old age or moves on to different realms of reality before the universe dies, billions of years from now, that's not a problem. And even if it were, that's a pretty cool story; how does Superman deal with being the last thing left in a dying universe? Does he survive even that? If so, what is he like when he comes out the other side of infinity?

I respect not being down with the idea of a very long lived Superman, Im just enjoying the debate.

[ManSinha]

As many of the posters have alluded to - the idea of an infinitely long lived Superman opens up tantalizing possibilities of stories that speak to the evolution of a near god like being in terms of physical and mental prowess but also a chance for us to imagine his philosophical growth as a sentient living being - in tandem perhaps as his influence expands from Metropolis to the US to the rest of the planet and beyond and then across time itself - and yes I do miss the Silver Age Superman's ability to travel through time under his own power as well.

[DrNewGod]

...I adore the idea of a Superman who is always busted up. He should always have bruises, cuts, scrapes, the occasional broken bone, and some scars to remind him (and everyone else) that just because he's bulletproof he's not completely immune to injury.

Second!

...It makes you think that Superman is pretty much wasting time with the whole Clark Kent thing, rather than doing his best bang-up job to ressurect Krypton and live amongst immortals. Lois will die, and Clark Kent will probably "die" right after her.

I actually like the idea that Superman wishes - and perhaps, even needs - to be Clark Kent. It's who he was raised as. It's a way to have some small part of a life of his own. And it means that he's not a god, that he has needs like us, including the need for love.

...John Bryne's Generations series introduced a fun idea where the older Clark got the slower he aged. So he'd still die from old age eventually, but the older he gets the slower it happens...

That's my favorite as well. Of course, that would stick far future generations with eons of a potentially Super Senile Kal-el. It might be better if his aging is "U" shaped, slowing at an exponential rate, and about the time that (relative) frailty kicks in, accelerating at an exponential rate.

Ultimately, though, the only time that how Superman ages has really mattered was the Silver Age, and then only on Earth-2. Other than that, Superman has always been a man of "our" time, whether that meant 1938, 2015, or anything in between.

[twincast]

I utterly despise the very concept of Kal-El being around long after the rest of his generation, let alone millenia. Doubly so since it oddly enough almost never applies to any other Kryptonian; other than a story or two they always disappear just like Bruce and everyone else.

[daBronzeBomma]

I vote yes for eventual immortality.

John Byrne's WORLD OF KRYPTON miniseries back in 1987 established the idea that Kryptonians under a red sun already had a life expectancy of at least 10,000 years or more by the time of Jor-El and Lara Lor-Van.

I'm not sure, but I think it was also established that Kryptonians spent the vast majority of those thousands and thousands of years as adults, with no much (comparative) time at all as babies, children or adolescents.

So if Kryptonians under a red sun could already live 10,000 years, then it's not a leap at all that Kryptonians under a yellow could potentially, barring injury or illness, live for millions of years.

Plus, I'm a fan of this guy:



and he's not even 900,000 years old.

[Ascended]

and he's not even 900,000 years old.

And he looks damned good for his age too.

"When 900,000 years old you reach, look as good, you will not!"? Sorry, Yoda, Superman and The Doctor got ya there.