Best Superman Story of all time....The Dark Knight Returns!?!?

[Johnny Thunders!]

I think that Goldn Age Superman, and correct me if I'm wrong, was rarely the underdog when facing his foes. I think that stays consistent in a room full of heroes. The game winning shot, that's Superman time.

And I'm pretty sure Golden Age Superman eventually hits light speed in one of those Mxyzptlk adventures, you're cosmic at that point.

[Steven Ely]

Siegel's Superman would get hit by his foes and crash down into a building, and he would get knocked unconscious from an explosion, etc., and sometimes his foot would slip and he'd fall crashing down. Some scanned examples from my books I put together into collages...

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Golden Age Flash in 1940 was "swifter than the speed of the light itself".
Superman was faster than a train, and faster than a bullet.

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[Johnny Thunders!]

The "Mxyzptlk Susie Alliance" it's a Don Cameron but he moves at the speed of light. In Superman Chronicles 10 he outruns an electrical current ( 50 to 99% the speed of light according to Wikipedia) and that's by Siegel, "The Conquest of a City." . I don think Siegel wanted Superman being less Super then his contemporaries except for maybe the Spectre, which I believe he created. By the Atomic age he time travels. Superman "A genius in intellect, a Hercules in strength.", I don't see him playing second fiddle to any hero.

[Jim Kelly]

The first time travel story is one of the last Siegel Superman stories (for many years)--"Autograph, Please," SUPERMAN No. 48 (September-October '47). It's interesting that significant transitions in Superman's history are marked by Superman travelling through time at that moment. If I was to make a fan fiction out of this, I'd say that Superman was the author of his own reboots--the act of travelling through time changes his own continuity.

[Steven Ely]

1947, under Mort Weisinger's editorial after the war. Mort Weisinger had became an editor of the Superman titles by that point. Mort Weisinger was an overbearing editor that dictated what the writers had to write. Superman #48 (1947) "Autograph, Please!" written by Siegel under Weisinger's control, was when Superman was first portrayed time traveling by flying at super-speed. Siegel left Detective Comics, Inc. in April, 1947 and had filed his first legal action in dispute for ownership rights of Superman. In 1948 the judge J. Addison Young ruled that DC was the legitimate owner of Superman. Jerry Siegel returned to DC in 1960 under Mort Weisinger's editorial because he needed the money to support his family, until 1963 when he left again, and he decided to try again suing DC for the the right to seek copyright renewal for Superman. In 1973 judge Morris E. Lasker didn't rule in Siegel's favor. Siegel in 1975 launched a public-relations campaign to protest DC and appeared with Joe Shuster on Tom Snyder's Tomorrow show. In 1976 DC's new publisher Jenette Kahn at least provided Siegel and Shuster with creator credit, financial assistance and medical benefits. Mort Weisinger retired in 1970, Julie Schwartz replaced him on the Superman comics from 1970 to 1986 when Schwartz retired.

Superman Homepage: "What were the biggest differences between working for Mort Weisinger and Julie Schwartz?"

Cary Bates: "Each man had very definite ideas about what made a good comic and both would take an active role in co-plotting every story with their writers. Of the two Mort was a bit more rigid and dogmatic. Julie had very specific likes and dislikes as well... though as time went on he was more flexible and open to new ideas."
http://www.supermanhomepage.com/comi...nterview_bates

Whitney Ellsworth (editorial director), Jack Schiff (managing editor), Mort Weisinger (Whitney Ellsworth's assistant editor and the actual editor). Editors Jack Schiff and Weisinger worked in the same office. Mort's rather fiery personality completely overwhelmed Jack's more introverted personality. http://www.comicbookradioshow.com/schiff.html

Jerry Siegel wrote in a letter to Joe Shuster, "I get a lot of scorn, belittlement and hot-tempered abuse from Weisinger, who says my plotting and scripting is inferior. This is really making a buck the hard way, but it's the only way I can support my family."

Curt Swan recalled Mort Weisinger bullying Siegel. In The Comics Journal #73 (1982) Curt Swan also explained that Jerry Siegel tried to return to his old '30s-'40s Superman plots/storylines and rewrite them.

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The Comics Journal #73 (1982) Curt Swan discussed his feelings about Mort Weisinger, and Elliot Maggins' Action Comics #436 (1974) "The Super-Cigars of Perry White" and Superman #376 "The Ozone-Master Comes Calling" (1982):

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Writer Alvin Schwartz recounted his own experience: “Like many others, I found Weisinger difficult to deal with. But I endured until one day he insisted that I write a story in which Superman finds some way to transfer his powers to Lois Lane. … I thought such a plot was out of character.”

Alvin Schwartz wrote the story "The Superwoman of Metropolis" in Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane #8 (1959) against his will, then quit. Even artist Curt Swan said that dealing with Weisinger caused himself recurrent headaches and temporarily drove him out of the business altogether in 1951. Writer Otto Binder retired from the business in 1958, mainly to escape from dealing with Weisinger. Writer Roy Thomas recalled dealing with Weisinger inclined him to leave DC after only 8 days and move to Marvel in 1965.

And yes, Jerry Siegel also created the Spectre in 1940 who he made much more powerful than his Superman. the Spectre could grow into a giant, could pass through walls, could read minds, could kill you just by looking into his eyes, etc.

And even though Jerry Siegel's Superman apparently didn't run faster than Gardner Fox's Flash, Siegel's Superman could do many super feats Flash couldn't.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Thats some learning right there! Anyways, I think once DC comics decided it was no longer a debate if Superman could match heroes like the Flash, they took Superman down too many notches. And from what I've read of Siegel, he didn't care for heroes like Batman taking his turf. No way am I convinced Siegel wanted Superman to be an also ran. ( Oh oh, How many pages wrong am I going to be this time, can we at least agree we've found some other Superman comics in the running for best Superman?)


And look at the cast of Writers: Alvin Schwartz, Leo Dorfman, Edmond Hamilton, Cary Bates, Elliot S! Maggin, and Jerry Siegel. I have a tough time disliking that Talent under Weisinger, and Otto Binder! The art squad was just as tough.

[Steven Ely]

This is stating to go in circles and it's going further and further off topic. So have a nice day.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Hopefully the O.P. Doesn't mind too much. I found this informative and really tangentially related to the topic. Ultimately I'm trying to see what makes Suerman Superman and how is that reflected in Dark Knight, so seriously I appreciate the perspective and interviews!

[adkal]

Golden Age Flash in 1940 was "swifter than the speed of the light itself".

And yet took a couple of hours to run across part of the US...

Superman was faster than a train, and faster than a bullet.

Initially, but he got faster quite early on.

[Jim Kelly]

Some bullets travel at twice the speed of sound (depending on the bullet and depending on the medium through which sound is propagated).

[Mantis Girl 94]

Hopefully the O.P. Doesn't mind too much. I found this informative and really tangentially related to the topic. Ultimately I'm trying to see what makes Suerman Superman and how is that reflected in Dark Knight, so seriously I appreciate the perspective and interviews!

I don't mind at all. All of you are a wealth of Superman knowledge and I love reading everything you have to say!