Style > Substance: YOUNG AVENGERS Appreciation

[Beetle]

I wouldn't say All-New Hawkeye retconned her origins. It added a bit of extra information, sure, but I don't think it directly erased anything from Heinberg's Young Avengers. As far as we know, she was still sexually assaulted, and that's what really pushed her to be a hero, even though she already had some admiration for Hawkeye. I try to keep Clint's involvement on her origin as little as possible in my own headcanon, just because I do prefer Kate becoming a hero for herself and not for anyone else. That's what made her stand out from the other Young Avengers. As for her dad, we never knew too much about him anyway, so I wasn't bothered by him becoming a villain. I actually liked the story.

And while I LOVE AmeriKate and their dynamic, yeah, I have to agree it feels like fanservice a lot of the time and it's annoying when it comes at the expense of people who were friends with Kate for longer. It was really refreshing when Nick Spencer actually remembered Cassie was supposed to be Kate's best friend too, but of course no one followed up on that. Maybe there's an in-universe reason for that. I mean, maybe Kate just grew apart from her older friends and started hanging out with other people more. It does happen in real life. Still sucks, though. Anyway, that's why we need a new YA book, honestly. Those characters just need to be in each other's orbits again.

I don't mind that writers tend to ignore the rape, it always seems iffy to me. She didn't need it to become a hero, that wasn't her motivation. What inspired her was that night at the church, disarming the hostage taker herself and helping the boys, it was Cassie approaching her on the street and just unapologetically saying "I don't care if I don't have any powers, I'm going to join them and be a hero because I can". That's the part that I feel writers have completely forgotten

Kate's in California, Cassie's in Florida. And Wiccan and Hulkling are in New York. That's likely the reason they're not seen together much.

That might be a good in universe reason if not for the fact that Billy can teleport. America can teleport. Tommy can be anywhere in the country in minutes.
And last I recall Noh-Varr lives in his spaceship orbiting earth so why isn't distance an issue for him?

Clint, America, Quentin and Gwen weren't living in California before WCA started but Thompson wanted them on the team. So she came up with reasons to get them there.

The fact is that writers aren't interested in using those characters from the Heinberg run so they aren't given the same treatment.

[Digifiend]

Clint was. He never went home after Kate's last solo arc.

I wonder if America uses her teleportation ability to commute to the college she was at in her solo?

[Drops Of Venus]

I don't mind that writers tend to ignore the rape, it always seems iffy to me. She didn't need it to become a hero, that wasn't her motivation. What inspired her was that night at the church, disarming the hostage taker herself and helping the boys, it was Cassie approaching her on the street and just unapologetically saying "I don't care if I don't have any powers, I'm going to join them and be a hero because I can". That's the part that I feel writers have completely forgotten

I have to disagree. I do think Heinberg's intention was to show the rape as something that kickstarted her desire to be a hero, and not that she just decided to be a hero overnight. For one, they revealed that in that special issue during vol. 1 that was specifically telling the origins of each one of the characters and why they decided to be heroes. I recall Kate telling Jessica Jones that, after what happened to her, she wanted to train and be prepared to not let it ever happen again, to her or to anybody else. The Young Avengers and Cassie gave her the nudge that she needed, but that desire to be a hero already existed in her because of the circumstances.

[Michael Watkins]

Rape as the motivation for a young character will prevent her from ever appearing in live-action or animation.

[Sutekh]

Rape as the motivation for a young character will prevent her from ever appearing in live-action or animation.

Eh. She existed before that backstory, and I didn't even know about it, having missed that one issue, so I don't think it's a terribly important facet of her character.

Just as Mockingbird having once killed a dude who raped her (or not, I'm not up on the current state of that situation...), or Hank Pym once hit Janet, and yet both Bobbi Morse and Hank Pym have shown up in Marvel productions without reference to those sketchy moments in their pasts, I'm sure if someone wanted to use Kate Bishop in a Marvel TV or movie situation, they could just gloss over or shave away that bit.

Although I'd agree if a Young Avengers series was pitched to Netflix, if only because they've already tapped the tired Red Sonja 'rape as empowerment / backstory' vein with Jessica Jones, and they seem unlikely to go there with yet another young female character.

[Digifiend]

Disney Streaming would be more likely than Netflix. It could be their answer to Titans. The major issue is that movies and TV are different departments and Cassie's already in the movies.

[Drops Of Venus]

Rape as the motivation for a young character will prevent her from ever appearing in live-action or animation.

That's an exaggeration. The rape wasn't even clear in the actual comics. They just showed her being jumped on by some guy, and the more mature audience kind of figured out the rest. They could do the same thing on live-action or animation. Just tell us she went through a traumatic experience without feeling the need to spell it out rape or even show it. Or, you know, they could just change the traumatic event. Maybe she was just physically and not sexually assaulted. Maybe she witnessed her mom getting killed. The character is not doomed because of one detail that can easily be changed, but still have the same effect on her.

Disney Streaming would be more likely than Netflix. It could be their answer to Titans. The major issue is that movies and TV are different departments and Cassie's already in the movies.

Plus, taking the Marvel/Netflix shows into consideration, there's no way in hell they'd have the budget to do a proper Young Avengers show. Also, we don't know much about Disney Play, but we have heard rumors about Marvel Studios producing their own original TV shows there. So a Young Avengers show that's actually a part of the same department as the movies could be a possibility now.

[Beetle]

I just don't like being raped as a motivation for any character, especially when it's ignored by most writers, and it doesn't really inform her interactions with other characters (other than that one time with Jessica Jones). So it's kinda like having rape there for the sake of edginess.

She's completely well adjusted and doesn't seem to suffer any residual trauma? I mean I get that people don't necessarily react to trauma in the same way, that they heal in their own ways.
But she doesn't feel weird at all about waking up in a strange bedroom not remembering the night before or who she had sex with? Not even brief anxiety about date rape before she remembers?

In that same story where she was describing her attack, she was already a kind person who was ready to help people. She went out of her way to give to a homeless person in the park. And it's not like after the attack that she went around fighting rapists and muggers in the park.

[Michael Watkins]

Eh. She existed before that backstory, and I didn't even know about it, having missed that one issue, so I don't think it's a terribly important facet of her character.

Just as Mockingbird having once killed a dude who raped her (or not, I'm not up on the current state of that situation...), or Hank Pym once hit Janet, and yet both Bobbi Morse and Hank Pym have shown up in Marvel productions without reference to those sketchy moments in their pasts, I'm sure if someone wanted to use Kate Bishop in a Marvel TV or movie situation, they could just gloss over or shave away that bit.

Although I'd agree if a Young Avengers series was pitched to Netflix, if only because they've already tapped the tired Red Sonja 'rape as empowerment / backstory' vein with Jessica Jones, and they seem unlikely to go there with yet another young female character.

Rape isn't part of Bobbi's origin.

[Magmaster12]

I have never seen a lot of chemistry between Cassie and Kate they never seemed to share any more personal moments or bond in how they both have a history of learning fighting.

[Drops Of Venus]

But she doesn't feel weird at all about waking up in a strange bedroom not remembering the night before or who she had sex with? Not even brief anxiety about date rape before she remembers?

I had never stopped to analyze that scene in the beginning of Gillen's run with Kate being a rape victim in mind. It certainly makes me look at it in a different way. At one point she says part of her thinks she should be ashamed of herself. Maybe that part is precisely the part that feels insecure about being intimate with someone, even if she goes through with it for the heck of it? Maybe a meaningless one night stand is how she pushed herself to overcome her fears? I mean, humans are complex. There are many ways to interpret why they do the things they do. I wish we had seen more of Kate's POV on what happened to her.

[legion_quest]

I have never seen a lot of chemistry between Cassie and Kate they never seemed to share any more personal moments or bond in how they both have a history of learning fighting.

Spencer's Ant-Man run has Cassie and Kate being friends

[Beetle]

I have never seen a lot of chemistry between Cassie and Kate they never seemed to share any more personal moments or bond in how they both have a history of learning fighting.

Kate and Cassie were so close in the original run, they bonded instantly. Just in the first six issues

• Getting past the fence to break into the Avengers Mansion and finding the spot where Scott died
• Kate calming Cassie down so she could shrink to normal size that first time she went giant
• "I thought you'd left" "Not without you Giant Girl"
• They kept in contact after Captain America forced them to disband and came up with a plan to keep the team going, to convince the boys to come back. They picked new codenames for Cassie and Billy, designed new costumes, found a new lair.

I had never stopped to analyze that scene in the beginning of Gillen's run with Kate being a rape victim in mind. It certainly makes me look at it in a different way. At one point she says part of her thinks she should be ashamed of herself. Maybe that part is precisely the part that feels insecure about being intimate with someone, even if she goes through with it for the heck of it? Maybe a meaningless one night stand is how she pushed herself to overcome her fears? I mean, humans are complex. There are many ways to interpret why they do the things they do. I wish we had seen more of Kate's POV on what happened to her.

I remember it being a big thing when that issue came out and some fans weren't happy with it. It got muddled because there was a lot of slut shaming going on as well.

I don't mind that she has casual sex, I just feel like if they're going to leave rape in her backstory, maybe it should inform her actions. She should be a bit more cautious about leaving the planet to hookup with a guy who once effortlessly beat up her entire team. So many women in real life have to make a ton of contingency plans when going on dates or outside and it's just constant vigilance and I know Kate can take care of herself but at least give her an escape option or a way back to earth in case he's still a psycho.

[Magmaster12]

Alright maybe they were close, but what the heck was up with Cassie's romantic relationship with Nate, it was completely out of left field and she only knew him for a few hours.

[Drops Of Venus]

Alright maybe they were close, but what the heck was up with Cassie's romantic relationship with Nate, it was completely out of left field and she only knew him for a few hours.

Yeah, I've always thought the Nate/Cassie relationship felt really rushed. I guess the subsequent Cassie/Jonas relationship was a way to follow up on that, as Jonas was wired to quite literally think and feel like Nate. I wish Heinberg's run had been longer and Iron Lad had stayed with the team for a longer time, though, 'cause that would probably make his bond to the other characters much stronger, which would also make his inevitable departure much more dramatic.

All I know is we really need a story with Nate coming back, probably closer to being a villain right now, and meeting the Young Avengers again. I would love to see Cassie confronting him about what happened to Jonas. I would also like to know how Nate, now as Kang, feels about Cassie. Could he possibly have a soft spot for her, due to her being his teenage sweetheart, or were those feelings extinguished long ago? There is some seriously interesting dynamics to explore with Nate, his alter-egos and the Young Avengers.