Style > Substance: YOUNG AVENGERS Appreciation

[Digifiend]

And I misremembered this interview. Ewing said that Avengers Island had a bunch of features "Including portal tech that allows the New Avengers to return to the U.S. in secret-identity mode, to do things like attend college or see their folks."
At the time I assumed that meant Billy and Teddy were enrolled somewhere

But then I remembered another interview where Ewing talked about how much the AIMvengers were being paid. And that unlike Squirrel Girl who was putting her paycheck towards her education, Billy and Teddy were saving up for a perfect wedding.

Doreen had better hope she saved enough up then, considering she's no longer an Avenger. Billy and Teddy at least don't have to worry about paying rent, since Roberto bought them a fully paid up apartment.

[Beetle]

That could be interesting, specially since there is a history between the Celestials and another young, earthling reality warper (Franklin Richards). I would NOT want those guys calling the shots on Billy ultimately, though. If he has to ''lock'' his powers for some reason, I want it to be HIS decision, and I want him to make that clear to those guys so they'd know they're not the boss of him.

I wasn't necessarily talking about the Celestials. I was thinking more along the lines of Elder Gods (like Chthon, Set, Gaea, Osthur and the Vishanti), Hell Lords (like Mephisto, Hela, Pluto, Blackheart, Satannish), lords of their own magical dimensions (Shuma Gorath, Dormmamu, Nightmare, Cyttorak) or certain cosmic abstracts (Master Order, Lord Chaos, Eon, the In-Betweener)

Billy is supposed to become the Demiurge, some sort of multiversal messiah figure who creates entire universes and rewrites the laws of magic. And we know that for at least some this will mean they will lose their ability to use magic, they won't be able to understand it anymore.







Most gods, demons and cosmic beings won't want that to happen. They don't want anyone to interfere or threaten their power base. Billy should be a target.

[Drops Of Venus]

Did everyone read the recent Teen Jean solo? Each issue typically had Jeen globe trot into a variety of Marvel folks who could advise her on her path of avoiding the Phoenix and preparing for its inevitable arrival.
Though, personally, I felt that the revolving door of guest appearances got a little excessive and lingered longer than I'd have preferred, I do appreciate and respect that narrative of using the resources you have available to better and further yourself thusly:


I want Jericho to be his psychologist, aiding him with his emotional/mental health journey, who refers Billy to Clea.

I wanna see Clea give Billy a magical review/assessment/physical(?) to determine the source of his power.

Upon examination, she would suggest he seek additional guidance from a known mutant/sorceress--Illyana Rasputin-- to further understand the natural biological mechanics of being a mutant who also harness other dimensional energies.

Clea and Illyana would be VERY different advisors/confidants with vastly different approaches to furthering his education.

And with the recent revelation (thank you Beetle) about the NYU magic institution, perhaps he would wind up there and further interact with other magically inclined folk. Maybe Nico audits or is taking a course online.

This could be fun. I'd also suggest Satana and Hellstorm to be his advisors in case he finds out his powers indeed have a connection to the shards of Mephisto's soul. As fellow kids of a demon, they would know enough about demonic-based energy to help him understand those powers, and maybe even stop any dark tendencies he might have inside of him.

Billy is never going to be a leading man.

As someone who would buy 10 copies of any solo series he ever got, it'd last less than 15 issues.

Finding a fit for him, or any of the Young Avengers, or really any modern character outside of a very tiny handful is more about finding places they could go. The idea of him being Strange's apprentice is about exposure to try and grow a bigger fan base, not an end goal

I beg to differ.

1. I would avoid any ultimate assumptions about a character's potential. I doubt that back in the 90s anyone would've thought that Deadpool and Squirrel Girl would have long, successful solo runs. Anything can happen.

2. You don't need a solo book to be a leading character. Billy has, in fact, been that before. He was the central character of two major Young Avengers stories (and one of them was an important Avengers event, also), which just goes to show you that writers not only CAN see him as a leading character, but he has a bigger shot when he's involved with the YA, which is why I don't agree with your notion that he should be moving away from that particular franchise. If Marvel actually starts investing in the Young Avengers again and letting them be more important to the overall MU, all of that WHILE Billy is still one of the protagonists, he would never NEED Doctor Strange to stay relevant. Plus, you're giving Marvel enough source material for future MCU productions (because, let's be real, if Wiccan ever appears in the MCU, it's way more likely it's going to be in YA than in Dr. Strange), which is like the ultimate step to increase a character's relevance in pop culture.

And how about those other Young Avengers? I feel like this is becoming the Billy Kaplan thread.

I liked Noh-Varr (and America Chavez) of the new recruits, and wonder if we are ever going to see Noh-Varr, in particular, again.

Well, he IS the fan favorite character from the thread poll, so we shouldn't be surprised he's a popular subject here.

As for Noh-Varr, he was just recently on the main cast of an Inhumans book, so I don't think it's very hard to fit him into any story a writer might want. I think it would be nice to see him joining Teddy on his cosmic adventures alongside the Knights Of The Infinite. Fokken has suggested that he could be his Kree squire, while Xavin is his Skrull squire when dealing with diplomatic issues between the two races, and I think that's a brilliant idea. You give them a role that makes sense for them, and you give Teddy familiar faces to interact with while on his cosmic quest.

I wasn't necessarily talking about the Celestials. I was thinking more along the lines of Elder Gods (like Chthon, Set, Gaea, Osthur and the Vishanti), Hell Lords (like Mephisto, Hela, Pluto, Blackheart, Satannish), lords of their own magical dimensions (Shuma Gorath, Dormmamu, Nightmare, Cyttorak) or certain cosmic abstracts (Master Order, Lord Chaos, Eon, the In-Betweener)

Billy is supposed to become the Demiurge, some sort of multiversal messiah figure who creates entire universes and rewrites the laws of magic. And we know that for at least some this will mean they will lose their ability to use magic, they won't be able to understand it anymore.


Most gods, demons and cosmic beings won't want that to happen. They don't want anyone to interfere or threaten their power base. Billy should be a target.

I got what you were trying to say; I just brought up the Celestials as an example of one of the big guys taking interest in an earthling boy because of his powers.

[MaximoffTrash]

I wasn't necessarily talking about the Celestials. I was thinking more along the lines of Elder Gods (like Chthon, Set, Gaea, Osthur and the Vishanti), Hell Lords (like Mephisto, Hela, Pluto, Blackheart, Satannish), lords of their own magical dimensions (Shuma Gorath, Dormmamu, Nightmare, Cyttorak) or certain cosmic abstracts (Master Order, Lord Chaos, Eon, the In-Betweener)

Billy is supposed to become the Demiurge, some sort of multiversal messiah figure who creates entire universes and rewrites the laws of magic. And we know that for at least some this will mean they will lose their ability to use magic, they won't be able to understand it anymore.







Most gods, demons and cosmic beings won't want that to happen. They don't want anyone to interfere or threaten their power base. Billy should be a target.

Is Doom referring to Billy as Demiurge or is he talking about an event similar to Demiurge creating Elder Gods?
Anyway, I like the idea of Demiurge being the game changer type.
It would make sense for Elder Gods to panic since they were born from such event, something like this could mean their end or rebirth.

[Drops Of Venus]

Is Doom referring to Billy as Demiurge or is he talking about an event similar to Demiurge creating Elder Gods?
Anyway, I like the idea of Demiurge being the game changer type.
It would make sense for Elder Gods to panic since they were born from such event, something like this could mean their end or rebirth.

I'm not sure if this was ever confirmed, but this was a digital comic written by Ewing, and because it's Ewing, I assume that he meant Billy as the Demiurge.

[MaximoffTrash]

I kinda hope they would connect Billy to the larger mystical mythos, maybe make this "Demiurge" thing like Celestial Hosts, like the father of Elder Gods is the first host, Billy is the second or something.
While Celestial Hosts is about unleashing genetic potential, Demiurge is about seeding mystical life forms and powers.
With each host a species would fall from their throne, like Deviants wiped out and Earth Pantheon getting their asses kicked by Celestials. Elder Gods, though near extinct, are very prominent in Earth's mystical matters, a second Demiurge would probably mean their time is finally due.
Though with Billy the scale is way larger than just Earth.

[Sutekh]

As for Noh-Varr, he was just recently on the main cast of an Inhumans book, so I don't think it's very hard to fit him into any story a writer might want. I think it would be nice to see him joining Teddy on his cosmic adventures alongside the Knights Of The Infinite. Fokken has suggested that he could be his Kree squire, while Xavin is his Skrull squire when dealing with diplomatic issues between the two races, and I think that's a brilliant idea. You give them a role that makes sense for them, and you give Teddy familiar faces to interact with while on his cosmic quest.

Oh wow, I love that idea, for, among other reasons, getting to see more of Teddy's story, which sometimes seems to take second place to Billy's, and also to see both Noh-Varr and Xavin again, two characters that definitely need a place to land!

[Fokken]

I'm not sure if this was ever confirmed, but this was a digital comic written by Ewing, and because it's Ewing, I assume that he meant Billy as the Demiurge.

WHAT??? digital what?? I've been oblivious to this -- whatever this is -- and now I'm [GAPING MOUTH]

Can we tweet Ewing for clarification?
I mean -- ITS EWING -- and the man is a continuity KING so OBVS he's referring to Billy but.... still.

omg my heart

[MaximoffTrash]

Oh wow, I love that idea, for, among other reasons, getting to see more of Teddy's story, which sometimes seems to take second place to Billy's, and also to see both Noh-Varr and Xavin again, two characters that definitely need a place to land!

Considering Kree and Skrulls are now two shattered Empires, Teddy uniting two warring races could be interesting. Maybe it's time to fullfill this destiny, but not just as the leader of Skrull people, but uniting two species waging war against each other for god knows how long.(Xavin would probably support this since it was her exact purpose before, but with Karolina's people.)

[Beetle]

WHAT??? digital what?? I've been oblivious to this -- whatever this is -- and now I'm [GAPING MOUTH]

Can we tweet Ewing for clarification?
I mean -- ITS EWING -- and the man is a continuity KING so OBVS he's referring to Billy but.... still.

omg my heart

It was an Infinite Comic, Iron Man Fatal Frontier

I believe Ewing and Gillen both collaborated on it, it had a continuation of a lot of the ideas Gillen had introduced in his Iron Man run and characters from this story turned up in later parts of that run.

That Doctor Doom was from a potential future, one where a Demiurge had rewritten the rules of magic, so he used science to go back in time. Point being he was probably referring to Billy as Demiurge, since Billy is the one who is destined to rewrite the rules of magic in the future.

[Drops Of Venus]

WHAT??? digital what?? I've been oblivious to this -- whatever this is -- and now I'm [GAPING MOUTH]

Can we tweet Ewing for clarification?
I mean -- ITS EWING -- and the man is a continuity KING so OBVS he's referring to Billy but.... still.

omg my heart

Oh Fokken, your enthusiasm is adorable. Never change.

Considering Kree and Skrulls are now two shattered Empires, Teddy uniting two warring races could be interesting. Maybe it's time to fullfill this destiny, but not just as the leader of Skrull people, but uniting two species waging war against each other for god knows how long.(Xavin would probably support this since it was her exact purpose before, but with Karolina's people.)

I mean, New Avengers went out of its way to literally paint Teddy as a messiah for the Kree/Skrull race. I don't know what the heck editorial is waiting for to make this story happen.

It was an Infinite Comic, Iron Man Fatal Frontier

I believe Ewing and Gillen both collaborated on it, it had a continuation of a lot of the ideas Gillen had introduced in his Iron Man run and characters from this story turned up in later parts of that run.

That Doctor Doom was from a potential future, one where a Demiurge had rewritten the rules of magic, so he used science to go back in time. Point being he was probably referring to Billy as Demiurge, since Billy is the one who is destined to rewrite the rules of magic in the future.

I was just checking now on Marvel Wikia (I never actually read the book, just looked it up because of the Demiurge thing), and Gillen did write some of the early issues with Ewing. I had no idea they had worked together on Marvel before. It just makes my craving for them co-writing a Wiccan & Hulkling book even bigger.

[MaximoffTrash]

The Cosmic status could use some shake-up, Shi'ar is now the only super Galactic power.
Kree and Skrulls being damaged could lead to some exciting development never done before. (They fought each other, they united in Infinity, but what about merging into a single new Empire? Shi'ar got multiple species under their banner.)

Also the mystical world, like jeez, the only change is magic constantly running out.( Specifically for Dr.Strange.)
I liked Mystic Arcana, it felt like leading to something.( but nope)

Everything feels so stale, Billy and Teddy could be the very factor of change and development for Mystical and Cosmic side.
Butwe are getting more Infinity Stones and Magic is Deadddddd!

[Drops Of Venus]

The Cosmic status could use some shake-up, Shi'ar is now the only super Galactic power.
Kree and Skrulls being damaged could lead to some exciting development never done before. (They fought each other, they united in Infinity, but what about merging into a single new Empire? Shi'ar got multiple species under their banner.)

Also the mystical world, like jeez, the only change is magic constantly running out.( Specifically for Dr.Strange.)
I liked Mystic Arcana, it felt like leading to something.( but nope)

Everything feels so stale, Billy and Teddy could be the very factor of change and development for Mystical and Cosmic side.
Butwe are getting more Infinity Stones and Magic is Deadddddd!

Agreed. It's actually kind of funny how much Billy and Teddy have in common. They both are the long lost children of classic Marvel characters, they both are reincarnations of powerful beings who passed their power onto them, and they both are destined to act as the bringers of great change to the mystical/cosmical worlds. I like to think they were always meant to be by some grand universal design, and that's why Gillen presented their love as a literal force to be reckoned with.

[MaximoffTrash]

Just thinking, did Rick Jones ever meet Teddy? Not only are they close connected to Mar-Vell, also in Avengers Forever, the descendant of Rick Jones is the Emperor of Terran Empire.(He is kinda a space tyrant though, it almost felt like the Empire from Star Wars.)
Both of them have a destiny of space monarchs.
And Rick Jones's Destiny Force manifested around the time Teddy's parents met each other.( Kree-Skrull War)
You could even call this, well, destiny.

[Drops Of Venus]

Just thinking, did Rick Jones ever meet Teddy? Not only are they close connected to Mar-Vell, also in Avengers Forever, the descendant of Rick Jones is the Emperor of Terran Empire.(He is kinda a space tyrant though, it almost felt like the Empire from Star Wars.)
Both of them have a destiny of space monarchs.
And Rick Jones's Destiny Force manifested around the time Teddy's parents met each other.( Kree-Skrull War)
You could even call this, well, destiny.

I don't think they've ever met. And yes, it would be interesting to see Rick interacting with Teddy, specially since we know he has a history of interacting with another child of Mar-Vell (Genis). It could be a thing for him to bond with members of the Vell family.