Superman: Lois and Clark #1 Preview / Discussion

[Ascended]

As I said, the character was slowly shifting into the post crisis version anyways. None of the characters and concepts mentioned in this post required such a huge reboot to the character to exist. Mike Carlin himself has said that his team could have done most everything they did during their run with the pre crisis Superman, aside maybe the stuff with the kents.

Sure they could've. Johns took away Barry Allen's parents without a full on reboot. He just used time travel. The Super-titles could have done the same thing. The Kents died because of a 5th dimensional battle that took place across Clark's entire life; it'd have been pretty simple to retcon the Kents out of the mythos.

Of course, people would have been up in arms over it worse than they were about Nora Allen being murdered. But it *could* have been done, and likely wouldnt have caused much more complaining than the full reboot did.

I think the hardest thing to get rid of would have been the marriage. Even with 5th dimensional hijinks at play, people werent likely to let go of that without a fight.

[sunofdarkchild]

Well I think you misunderstand. I'm not puting down those good things that came from the triangle era. What I was trying to say (And perhaps failed with my admittingly convoluted analogy) is that for all the good things the triangle creators did, they were stuck with the task of adding big pieces of the mythos back that were taken away , like the phantom zone, the fortress and because of the conceit of the reboot they often were pale imitations of what was taken away, and ultimately, as hard as they tried, their versions of such things were eventually overwritten or retconned back into versions akin to what existed before...ultimately making the history even more convoluted than where it started. That's what I ment by "real instruments and covering greatest hits.".When they didn't have that burden, like with expanding the cast and deepening the Lois and Clark relationship, they excelled.

As I said, the character was slowly shifting into the post crisis version anyways. None of the characters and concepts mentioned in this post required such a huge reboot to the character to exist. Mike Carlin himself has said that his team could have done most everything they did during their run with the pre crisis Superman, aside maybe the stuff with the kents.

I see it very differently. The way I see it, the limitations of that period, because they were consistent for 15 years and because they had reasons beyond the whims of whoever was the editor at the time. Not being able to use Kryptonian characters forced them to use more human characters and allowed them to let Superman have family that wasn't from Krypton.

The problem with things being overwritten/retconned is something else entirely. Like most of the terrible changes of the 00s, that was a result of new writers and especially editors who had completely different priorities. In Superman's case the priority of consistency was abandoned in favor of nostalgia.

Rules and limitations are not problems as long as they are consistent and are not arbitrary. That's why there was so much expansion during the triangle era and so much contraction since.

[sunofdarkchild]

Sure they could've. Johns took away Barry Allen's parents without a full on reboot. He just used time travel. The Super-titles could have done the same thing. The Kents died because of a 5th dimensional battle that took place across Clark's entire life; it'd have been pretty simple to retcon the Kents out of the mythos.

Of course, people would have been up in arms over it worse than they were about Nora Allen being murdered. But it *could* have been done, and likely wouldnt have caused much more complaining than the full reboot did.

I think the hardest thing to get rid of would have been the marriage. Even with 5th dimensional hijinks at play, people werent likely to let go of that without a fight.

He's talking about making them alive without the 86 reboot, not killing them off for the Nu52.

[Tayswift]

Maybe the two Supermen each get a Justice League.

I think it was a lost opportuity, not having pre52 superman on JLU

[Ascended]

He's talking about making them alive without the 86 reboot, not killing them off for the Nu52.

Whoops, and so he is! My bad. How I missed that......? Must have needed more coffee? Or more likely, just needed to pay closer attention....

Yes, well, ahem....move along folks, nothing to see here......

[BBally]

VictorSage: Those may be collectively the best post I've ever seen on CBR. Really well done, and something that future Superman writers should use as a reference point for whatever stories they're thinking about if they want to get a handle on the character.

Love the Golden Age stories -- and the panels you've used clarify why. Superman was so much more direct and to the point, and the whole "who's the real persona" wasn't even an issue because the reader knew that the two were fundamentally one (Clark was a milquetoast only in front of others -- and sometimes not even then). Morrison tried to capture that in his Action run, but it didn't seem as natural as Schuster and Siegel made it. I still really applaud his effort though.

Regardless, great posts.

It's an interesting read indeed, although I'm with Michael Bailey when he said the best way to go about it is to make both Superman and Clark Kent part real persona and part fake.