Does it really matter if All New All Diffrent Marvel is out before Secret Wars ends?

[Michael P]

How about this, I'll state it very simply:

New universe = reboot

They can and will do anything they want with continuity now, they won't even bother to explain it, either.

How do the lizard people who control the British crown figure in?

[Brian B]

How do the lizard people who control the British crown figure in?

No idea. I don't subscribe to anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

More evidence it's a reboot, everything starts over at #1 now. Heck, that right there IS a reboot, of the entire line.

[cyberhubbs]

#1s are reboots. Got it.

[MyriVerse]

The fact that there is an ANAD tells us nothing about how SW ends or the journey to its ending. So, of course it doesn't matter. "Blanker Blank" appearing in Iron Man doesn't tell us a thing about what happens to "Blanker Blank" in SW.

[WayneLW]

How about this, I'll state it very simply:

New universe = reboot

They can and will do anything they want with continuity now, they won't even bother to explain it, either.

If that's the criterion, then the Marvel Universe has been rebooted a whole bunch of times before now. Here's a partial list:

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...-now-its-back/

And this list doesn't include quite a few other storylines during which the whole universe was flushed and reset. So, what does one more time matter?

[vitruvian]

Again, it's not a reboot. If you insist on believing it is, that's up to you. But the reality is that it's not. Yes, the MU has changed and elements from other dimensions, universes, and timelines are now incorporated into the central MU but it's not a "reboot." Reboot implies that we're starting at square one, with a blank slate and new histories for these characters. We're not. Everything that makes up the character's past histories is intact. Or at least as intact as their histories were before as aspects of a character's past have always been quietly forgotten when they no longer apply due to the sliding timeline (as with Tony's time in Vietnam).

So, by that argument, the original Crisis wasn't a reboot. Sorry, but if elements from other universes are now incorporated as always having been in the ANAD Marvel Universe, then it is indeed a sort of reboot. Just because we begin in media res with all of the retained or changed history behind us, rather than rehashing everybody's origins from the beginning all over again, doesn't mean that it's not.

Now, perhaps you don't want to call this, or Crisis, or New 52, or any comparable events by the name 'reboot'. I guess I can see that. However, they are definitely the sort of mass retcons that the majority of comic book fans have been calling reboots for several decades now, whether that's accurate terminology or not, and pretending like that's not the usage in play doesn't help the discussion at all.

[vitruvian]

If that's the criterion, then the Marvel Universe has been rebooted a whole bunch of times before now. Here's a partial list:

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...-now-its-back/

And this list doesn't include quite a few other storylines during which the whole universe was flushed and reset. So, what does one more time matter?

This is true as well. They have technically rebooted the MU in-story a number of times, although curiously it has never before been done as a line-wide event where they take the opportunity to retcon a bunch of stuff and publish a bunch of new #1s.

[cyberhubbs]

So, by that argument, the original Crisis wasn't a reboot. Sorry, but if elements from other universes are now incorporated as always having been in the ANAD Marvel Universe, then it is indeed a sort of reboot. Just because we begin in media res with all of the retained or changed history behind us, rather than rehashing everybody's origins from the beginning all over again, doesn't mean that it's not.

Now, perhaps you don't want to call this, or Crisis, or New 52, or any comparable events by the name 'reboot'. I guess I can see that. However, they are definitely the sort of mass retcons that the majority of comic book fans have been calling reboots for several decades now, whether that's accurate terminology or not, and pretending like that's not the usage in play doesn't help the discussion at all.

Which elements are they saying have always been a partof the MU?

[Prof. Warren]

So, by that argument, the original Crisis wasn't a reboot. Sorry, but if elements from other universes are now incorporated as always having been in the ANAD Marvel Universe, then it is indeed a sort of reboot. Just because we begin in media res with all of the retained or changed history behind us, rather than rehashing everybody's origins from the beginning all over again, doesn't mean that it's not.

Now, perhaps you don't want to call this, or Crisis, or New 52, or any comparable events by the name 'reboot'. I guess I can see that. However, they are definitely the sort of mass retcons that the majority of comic book fans have been calling reboots for several decades now, whether that's accurate terminology or not, and pretending like that's not the usage in play doesn't help the discussion at all.

Crisis and New 52 gave us a new start to the DCU. Crisis did not incorporate the Silver Age stories that came before it. The history of John Byrne's Superman in the post-Crisis universe began with the Man of Steel mini, for instance, and did not include the many decades of adventures fans had read previously. And the New 52 similarly took place in a new DCU that was not related to the post-Crisis DCU. Both those stories divided continuities.

In contrast, ANAD is very much continuing on post-SW with all the past histories of the characters intact.

[vitruvian]

Which elements are they saying have always been a partof the MU?

We don't know yet, since we haven't seen many Ultimate characters and those we have seen, like the Maker, haven't gotten a lot of exposition. I did say IF elements from other universes are incorporated in this way, THEN it will be a reboot of sorts. So, we'll know as soon as we know whether the Maker, and Miles Morales, remember being from a different universe or not, or whether the Triskelion is seen as being a foreign implant or something that was built in its present location a long time ago.

[vitruvian]

Crisis and New 52 gave us a new start to the DCU. Crisis did not incorporate the Silver Age stories that came before it. The history of John Byrne's Superman in the post-Crisis universe began with the Man of Steel mini, for instance, and did not include the many decades of adventures fans had read previously. And the New 52 similarly took place in a new DCU that was not related to the post-Crisis DCU. Both those stories divided continuities.

In contrast, ANAD is very much continuing on post-SW with all the past histories of the characters intact.

Crisis incorporated a LOT of the Silver Age stories that came before it. I read New Teen Titans at the time, and apart from Wonder Girl and Changeling's origins having to be retconned, the post-Crisis stories were a direct continuation of the pre-Crisis stories.

And Superman made a number of appearances post-Crisis before his backstory was changed for Man of Steel reasons, as did Katar Hol, the Green Lantern Corps, etc.

And then in New 52, the vast majority of Batman and Green Lantern stories were retained. Grant Morrison's Batman storyline wasn't even interrupted.

[Tayswift]

Crisis incorporated a LOT of the Silver Age stories that came before it. I read New Teen Titans at the time, and apart from Wonder Girl and Changeling's origins having to be retconned, the post-Crisis stories were a direct continuation of the pre-Crisis stories.

And Superman made a number of appearances post-Crisis before his backstory was changed for Man of Steel reasons, as did Katar Hol, the Green Lantern Corps, etc.

And then in New 52, the vast majority of Batman and Green Lantern stories were retained. Grant Morrison's Batman storyline wasn't even interrupted.

teen titans wasn't rebooted on COIE, that later begin huge problem on continuity. superman and ww had the huge reboots. many things changed when multiverse ended too

[vitruvian]

teen titans wasn't rebooted on COIE, that later begin huge problem on continuity. superman and ww had the huge reboots. many things changed when multiverse ended too

Correct - Teen Titans wasn't retconned in Crisis (apart from some team members' origins), and yet Crisis is widely recognized as a reboot. Other parts of continuity were explicitly retconned in Crisis and explained in History of the DC Universe, like the Justice Society having existed on the same Earth as the Justice League, just earlier, and then others were retconned later on in their own series, notably Superman, Wonder Woman, and Hawkman/Hawkwoman/Hawkworld.

So, my point is that if the ANAD Marvel includes things like Miles Morales always having been on the same Earth as '616' Peter Parker, or the Triskelion having been in NYC all along, then it's enough of a universe-wide retcon to count as a partial, Crisis-like reboot. If not, it's more a bunch of Black Canary/Red Tornado dimensional refugee situations. But the fact that some (many?) parts of continuity appear to be basically unchanged wouldn't prevent it from being a Crisis-like reboot in itself, because that was true for Crisis as well.

[Prof. Warren]

Crisis incorporated a LOT of the Silver Age stories that came before it. I read New Teen Titans at the time, and apart from Wonder Girl and Changeling's origins having to be retconned, the post-Crisis stories were a direct continuation of the pre-Crisis stories.

And Superman made a number of appearances post-Crisis before his backstory was changed for Man of Steel reasons, as did Katar Hol, the Green Lantern Corps, etc.

And then in New 52, the vast majority of Batman and Green Lantern stories were retained. Grant Morrison's Batman storyline wasn't even interrupted.

Well, all that I would attribute to poor coordination and weak editorial choices and a lack of cooperation on the part of writers. Much of the post-Crisis universe was convoluted as a result of this piecemeal approach and many of the same mistakes were made with New 52.

[Prof. Warren]

So, my point is that if the ANAD Marvel includes things like Miles Morales always having been on the same Earth as '616' Peter Parker, or the Triskelion having been in NYC all along, then it's enough of a universe-wide retcon to count as a partial, Crisis-like reboot. If not, it's more a bunch of Black Canary/Red Tornado dimensional refugee situations. But the fact that some (many?) parts of continuity appear to be basically unchanged wouldn't prevent it from being a Crisis-like reboot in itself, because that was true for Crisis as well.

This will not be the case, I'm fairly sure. And, again, it's a different situation than Crisis in that there isn't the starting from scratch approach here - not even in the patchwork way that Crisis handled it.