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  1. #4801
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschoolfan View Post
    I am hard pressed to remember something like this lasting so long. Going back to Civil War, most stuff paid off. Prior to that, maybe when there was a talent change over on a book. The funny thing is I remember when the transition was handled really well, Byrne leaving on West Coast Avengers, the follow up team did a really good job of transitioning the stories.
    I remember those XMen stories, it seemed like awhile Chris Claremont lost his way a little and then Jim Lee, Whilce Portacio and that crew helped him straighten it all out.
    YES!!

    I remember when I was really heavy into the comics in the 90's... I didn't know or care who the writers were. Where a run started or stopped... It was all about the character. It didn't matter to me who was writing Amazing Spider-man or Spectacular or Web of Spider-man…. they were all the same Spider-man and that was the Spider-man that Stan Lee had created. There were certainly some artists I liked better than others, and looking back there were certainly some arcs I liked better than others... but the idea of following a writer never would have occurred to me. If I love reading about Spider-man or Daredevil... and that writer moves on to Punisher... who I despise, no amount of writer loyalty is going to make Punisher suck less for me.

    This is a trend I don't like much anymore. People like Bendis or Schlott would come and and every book they write would SOUND like them. The characters don't sound like the characters anymore... they sound like a writers mouthpiece and you can often identify who the writer is just by looking at the dialogue.

    The writers should be writing the characters first and foremost... and if the story doesn't work without completely rewriting/retcon/ruining a character... than that story shouldn't be told with this cast.

    TV actually has it right now days. You take any random TV show and they have half a dozen writers working up the scripts and multiple directors.... but the characters and the plot flow together. I can't remember a time when I saw 'directed by XXXX' on Supernatural or Arrow or any of my other shows and thought 'OH... him again.... this one will suck...'

  2. #4802
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschoolfan View Post
    It's funny too, a lot of the Jane Fosthor stories didn't really take advantage of the gender change. The War of the Gods story could have been a Thor story, even the battle with Mangog could have been told with Thor as a man. The drama came from the fact that Jane had cancer....you could have substituted Don Blake in the same situation and told the same story. So, how did changing Thor's gender provide anything different?
    That... is actually a point in Aaron's favor though. The gender swap was painfully gimmicky. If the idea is to show that a woman could be as big a hero as a man... than just have her do it. Don't end every issue with a feminist Speech. Having the drama be from something OTHER than the obvious was not a bad thing.

  3. #4803
    Astonishing Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschoolfan View Post
    So, how did changing Thor's gender provide anything different?
    women are more appealing

    BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH!!!!

  4. #4804
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    HI All,

    I'm new to the boards and just recently joined. I'm attempting to read some of my favorite Marvel characters from the beginning to present day...currently reading Hulk and Thor is also on my list. I know that Thor and Loki play a heavy role with the Avengers through the years...when reading Thor is it important to read the Marvel Events as well? Or just the solo title. I know that Jane eventually becomes Thor and I see on this board that some people liked it and others thought it was gimmicky and hated it...but without having read it yet, I think it seems like an idea that works ok. At least Jason Aaron was using a character that has been in Odinson's orbit since the beginning and not like an Amadeus Cho who's only existed since 2006. During Jane's time as Thor, is Odinson still in the book even though he's "unworthy"? I know they have the Unworthy Thor that explains how he lost the hammer but where there any other appearances through 2015-2017 other than the mini? Anyway I'm looking forward to diving into The God of Thunder!! And by the way, since this an appreciation thread, I also prefer Odinson as well.

  5. #4805
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    Talking Happy Thor's Day!

    Thor #274 Aug 1978
    "The Eye - and the Arrow!"
    Loki is going on about Ragnarok, while Hobbs and crew begin filming.

    Loki transforms into a rat and scurries away underneath a statue of Odin. As Thor is lifting the statue, Odin returns.
    Odin tells them of how Hugin and Munin came to him to tell him of the coming of Ragnarok.
    Of how he went to Mimir and gave his eye for knowledge of how to forestall it.
    He then tells of going to Hel to confront Volla, and upon his return of coming across Hoder.
    Sif then returns with the goddesses of Asgard, including Frigga. Odin, Thor, and Frigga go inside to converse,

    while the rest decide to test Balder's invulnerability.

    Hobbs goes to warn Thor, while Loki gives Hoder an arrow tipped with mistletoe.
    Thor arrives too late as the arrow pierces Balder's heart.

    Script by Roy Thomas, pencils by John Buscema (breakdowns) and Tom Palmer (finished art), inks by Tom Palmer

  6. #4806
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    That was a great run, illustrated by the best: John Buscema and Tom Palmer!

  7. #4807
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugbuddy View Post
    That was a great run, illustrated by the best: John Buscema and Tom Palmer!

    I loved both john and sal Buscema work

  8. #4808
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschoolfan View Post
    You get to the heart of the issue. I think Aaron may have a particular point of view that he is pushing with his stories. I think I started to see it in "Godbomb" .
    Yes, Aaron has talent, his origin of Mjolnir is a great Thor story. And it was told in a very "Kirbyesque" way.
    But if it hadn't been for Russell Dauterman's art over the course of the series, I would have dropped the book.

    As I read Aaron's stories, it almost seems he is deliberately ignoring the Kirby/Lee run of the book. Especially in the way he characterizes Thor and Odin. Odin was always tempered with compassion, Aaron's Odin is simply and overbearing jerk. Aaron's Thor acts like Hercules, its simply not the same character. All of the Silver Age/ Bronze Age writers recognized something noble about the character, I could give examples but I don't want to belabor the point.
    Its funny too, because Aaron almost admits he doesn't know how to handle Loki in one of the more recent issues.

    The most recent art in the book isn't too my liking either. But, I am giving it a chance and it's not getting in the way of the storytelling.

    It's funny too, a lot of the Jane Fosthor stories didn't really take advantage of the gender change. The War of the Gods story could have been a Thor story, even the battle with Mangog could have been told with Thor as a man. The drama came from the fact that Jane had cancer....you could have substituted Don Blake in the same situation and told the same story. So, how did changing Thor's gender provide anything different?
    I am always the first to laud the talent of both Lee and Kirby, especially their work on Thor. However if anyone used their characterisations in a modern comic it wouldn’t sell because they are not only dated they were dated when they began. The whole thrust of the early stories was an attempt to bridge the gap between the late golden age / early atomic age comics. It was a work in progress for quite a while. You can see the storytelling evolve during that period of Thor, which is why it is so fascinating historically.

    Aaron is far from ignoring the period. He is directly inspired by it. That shines through in his choice of stories, his approach to the characters and the way he models Jane as Thor on early Blake as Thor.

    It seems to be a trend amongst comic book fans to hold the classic writers on a pedestal, which is problematic. They were the writers and artists that forged the context of modern comics and deserve their place in the hall of fame, but to clearly see their contributions we need to see them as the sometimes flawed guys they were and we need to recognise where they struggled and where they were actively problem solving.

    One of the main reasons I love Thor comics so much is because it is the most transparent work in progress. The flaws are apparent and the problems still exist. There are decades of problem solving laid before us and more to come. Thor has always had problems as a property and will probably always have them. The attempts to fix those flaws have been glorious.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 08-17-2018 at 03:17 AM.

  9. #4809
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    Happy Thor's Day!!!

    Thor #394 Aug 1988
    "...And How Shall Mortals Know Ye?" First appearance of Jimmy Kincaid!
    Maddie Arnstein is given the task to rewrite a Thor movie script, and she goes digging in the past for the story.

    After meeting with several people who had known Thor, she decides to write a story about a fictional police officer, Kelly Hernandez whom she imagines with her own face.

    Hernandez meets Thor while both of them were fighting the same criminals...

    Hernandez then starts a tumultuous, sentimental relationship with Thor and improves her own weaponry considerably,
    but she finds herself unable to join Thor in the legendary Asgard, leaving her homeworld, Earth, behind. This ends their relationship with tears.
    While the producers enjoy Arnstein's script, they decide to greenlight a parallel Thor project instead:

    A saturday morning cartoon for TV featuring Thor as a dog!
    NOTE: Pages 1-3 are the prologue. Daredevil makes a brief appearance.
    Cameos by Hogun, Fandrall, Volstagg, Balder, Giant-Man, Iron Man, Hercules, Loki, the Absorbing Man, Odin, the Executioner, Cobra, Mr. Hyde, Keith Kincaid and Jane Foster.


    Script by Tom DeFalco (pages 1-3) and Roger Stern (pages 4-24), pencils by Ron Frenz (pages 1-3) and Bob Hall (pages 4-24),
    inks by Brett Breeding (pages 1-3) and Tony DeZuniga (pages 4-24).

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  11. #4811
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    I liked the balance even if I didn't agree with it all

    For me, there is only one true thor, not bill, jane, eric, dargo etc

    I accept no substitute no matter how good they may be, imo all others pale in comparison

  12. #4812
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Oh CBR .

  13. #4813
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    The fall and fall of CBR. Each time I revisit it I am reminded why I have avoided it. Glad this forum is removed from it.

    I couldn’t even finish the article, apparently Thor is not a natural protector of Midgard but instead primarily the champion of Asgard. I guess whoever put it together has never read the multiple direct references, copious subtext or whole stories emphasising Thor’s ties to Earth throughout the corpus. Surely any one of the many origin retellings, even the non-canonical ones, would have illuminated this vital part of his character?
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 08-26-2018 at 01:46 AM.

  14. #4814
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    I'm all for Jane Foster as a regular romantic interest but not taking over the character's title. I have expressed my preference for the character of Jane Foster as a romantic interest over Sif, Amora and all the others but the main spot belongs to Thor, and again, Thor is not a title that can be transferred with the hammer, that is nonsense.

  15. #4815
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Well, the Avengers Secret Wars cartoon handled that well. Jane nearly died in a quicksand pit, so Odinson had Mjolnir pull her out. She gained his powers (they didn't adapt the cancer at all and she's a scientist like in the movies, so she wasn't really the same character before this point). Later, they tag teamed, passing the hammer back and forth, and then when they got back to Asgard, Odin simply gave Jane her own weapon and the mantle of Thunderstrike (curse Asgardians of the Galaxy for bringing back Kevin Masterson, I thought the name was available - will comics Jane end up sharing his mantle or still use Thor's name when she's repowered?), meaning Odinson has Mjolnir to himself again and was never replaced. That was the end of the season, I think Avengers Black Panther's Quest is about to start but I don't know how much either of them will feature. As the title suggests most of the focus is on Panther, so I guess the other Avengers (the team has 14 members now) will rotate in and out.
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