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  1. #15646
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Is Millar/Hitch Ultimates any good? I wasn’t sure if it’d be better collecting it that way or separately (Season 1 and Ultimates 2)

  2. #15647
    Amazing Member Hive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balakin View Post
    I think your second comment answers the first one (at least partially)
    Morrison's approach was a new start and a new aesthetic that could help bringing the team over to the 21st century.
    He started working on the title after the first X-men movie and thought that the comics needed to catch up with the movies, needed to offer something for the readers who would jump in after coming out of the cinema.
    So he proposed an upgrade on the costumes, less spandex and more cool leather jackets, late 90s, early 2000s rave and cyberpunk influences (a'la matrix, which he has an everlasting grudge against).
    And he wanted to distance himself from the convoluted continuity of the previous decades and focus more on the school and the mutant aspect of the characters instead of the super heroics.
    He looked at whatever the X-men was doing in the last two and a half decades and asked what if I put the emphasis on the unexplored aspects.

    Now if you are an X-men fanatic, following the team and various books in the past, I can see why you would think Morrison went against everything you knew and loved.
    I grew up on Claremont's run but I always much prefer self contained, interesting takes but I completely understand why fans of the previous era would dislike it.
    But for new fans, or tired old ones, this was a fresh and exciting take that felt more grounded at of the zeitgeist.
    You know what? I think you're probably right. I did feel it was a soft reboot of sorts, missing many of the characters and plots that I was familiar with.

    I grew up on Claremonts long and convoluted arcs - and while I loved them, they weren't exactly new-reader friendly, I'll give you that.

    As for the art, Quitely is not everybody's cuppa but I think he is a brilliant artist and his style really fits Morrison's writing.
    I remember getting a random issue back in 2003 I think, first time I've ever seen Quitely's art and instantly fell in love. The way he conveys motion and tells the stories visually is amazing.

    The other artists are more of a mixed bag (poor Igor Kordey got done dirty) but I can't see many people having problems with Jimenez.
    My memory of the artwork was perhaps a bit too harsh. Googling Quitely's work on the X-Men, I can see that it wasn't all bad. Not among my favorite X-artists either, but firmly in the middle. Whoever came up with the cat look for Beast though, I'll never forgive...

  3. #15648
    Moderator Balakin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hive View Post
    You know what? I think you're probably right. I did feel it was a soft reboot of sorts, missing many of the characters and plots that I was familiar with.

    I grew up on Claremonts long and convoluted arcs - and while I loved them, they weren't exactly new-reader friendly, I'll give you that.



    My memory of the artwork was perhaps a bit too harsh. Googling Quitely's work on the X-Men, I can see that it wasn't all bad. Not among my favorite X-artists either, but firmly in the middle. Whoever came up with the cat look for Beast though, I'll never forgive...
    that was probably Quitley and Morrison. You gotta admit, Whedon used it really well in ASM.
    Cat beast was the first I've seen Beast since... I don't even know how long, and in that random issue I got he was chasing a flaming Glob Herman and with Quitley's art it just looked cool to me.

    But I feel your pain, cause the next time they've "upgraded" Beast in Bendis' run to that ape form I've felt the same disappointment you did for Cat Beast.

  4. #15649
    Moderator Balakin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Is Millar/Hitch Ultimates any good? I wasn’t sure if it’d be better collecting it that way or separately (Season 1 and Ultimates 2)
    That's a read I hold dear to my heart but only recommend it cautiously.

    Up until the MCU started it felt like this is the closest we will get to a cinematic version of the Avengers.
    And the MCU used a lot of ideas from this run, but in my humble opinion, they've made it work better than Millar did.

    Basically his take is quite satirical, edgy and everyone behaves like a celebrity A-hole. If you like Millar's writing you'll probably enjoy it, I think this is one of his better books.
    Also there are a couple of references that are very of their time, so you really need to read it as an early 2000s, pre MCU experiment to create the most "movie-esque" superhero comic possible.
    Hitch on art is superb tho. He continued to deliver the same quality he committed to on The authority.

    BTW I've re read it last year and I still had a lot of fun with it and will re read it in the future. It might not be an objectively quality book but it's a lot of fun.

  5. #15650
    Satanic Member Rimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balakin View Post
    That's a read I hold dear to my heart but only recommend it cautiously.

    Up until the MCU started it felt like this is the closest we will get to a cinematic version of the Avengers.
    And the MCU used a lot of ideas from this run, but in my humble opinion, they've made it work better than Millar did.

    Basically his take is quite satirical, edgy and everyone behaves like a celebrity A-hole. If you like Millar's writing you'll probably enjoy it, I think this is one of his better books.
    Also there are a couple of references that are very of their time, so you really need to read it as an early 2000s, pre MCU experiment to create the most "movie-esque" superhero comic possible.
    Hitch on art is superb tho. He continued to deliver the same quality he committed to on The authority.

    BTW I've re read it last year and I still had a lot of fun with it and will re read it in the future. It might not be an objectively quality book but it's a lot of fun.
    Agreed with your bolded line above. You can see how Millar's version COULD happen, it's not as bad as "The Boys", but still... but you can also see why Marvel made their movie characters way more likeable. As that equates to bankable. I mean, RDJ plays a kinda egotistical know-it-all jerk Iron Man at times, but you still like him. If he was just an outright jerk all the time, some may still like him, but AVG movie-goers wouldn't.

    I'll chime in that the Ultimates has its ups and downs, but for me, some of it is just a little too abrasive. Especially the Hank/Jan dynamic. Maybe I'm just too used to the MCU now. I recall Cap being a class A jerk, too.
    "Boomerang arrow, Kate... It comes back to you in the end. Boomerang. Respect it." - Clint
    "Why the hell do you need an arrow that comes back to you after you shoot it, Clint?" - Kate
    "Because... Boomerangs." - Clint.

  6. #15651
    Extraordinary Member Raffi Ol D'Arcy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Is Millar/Hitch Ultimates any good? I wasn’t sure if it’d be better collecting it that way or separately (Season 1 and Ultimates 2)
    What Balakin and Rimmer said. Hitch is at his best. I also found the Hank/Jan situation grating. I liked Volume 1 but kind of disliked Volume 2 and even distasteful in parts. I only have the OHC of the former with no inclination of picking up the latter.

  7. #15652
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    Ultimates is a mixed bag with a lot going for it, especially visually. What's more, it is probably one of the most interesting Marvel books in tone and execution.

  8. #15653
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Is Millar/Hitch Ultimates any good? I wasn’t sure if it’d be better collecting it that way or separately (Season 1 and Ultimates 2)
    depends on how you closely you hold the classic Avengers characters and if you can tolerate liberties being taken. I love Ultimates because of how much it counters the formula of superhero storytelling, and the character dynamics, but the idea is that everyone is a complete asshole, and some beloved 616 characters are straight up villainous in 1610. you will find yourself feeling dubious and even angry over certain decisions made by the characters. I found it to be an interesting take on these classic characters because it made them feel like "real" people dealing with extremely dangerous and difficult situations, and Millar's dialogue enhances that. Ultimates 3 is a very unfortunate follow up that has nothing good from Millar's runs and everything people hated about them.

    for the concept of superheroes being in a real world and acting like chumps while facing moral dilemmas, the Authority does a much better job imo. not marvel but Hitch was on it, and Millar had an okay run. Ultimates borrowed a lot from the Authority, such as the cinematic style of storytelling in comics with monumental action scenes and spectacles, and grounded characters who each have their charms and their demons
    Last edited by Elmo; 05-04-2020 at 09:06 PM.

  9. #15654

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    Agreed with everyone else; Millar's stuff is very 00's.

    A lot of gay jokes; and the characters are insufferable.

    But if you read it as a time capsule of the early 2000's when America was full on 'Murica! F-Yeah! Then I think you will enjoy it - I know I do.

    The art is really good and the overall idea is decent and to be frank without Millar's Ultimates we would not have the MCU.

  10. #15655
    Moderator Balakin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Agreed with everyone else; Millar's stuff is very 00's.

    A lot of gay jokes; and the characters are insufferable.

    But if you read it as a time capsule of the early 2000's when America was full on 'Murica! F-Yeah! Then I think you will enjoy it - I know I do.

    The art is really good and the overall idea is decent and to be frank without Millar's Ultimates we would not have the MCU.
    I really think Millar, as a Scotsman, had a more satirical approach to this rather than a straight forward, Michael Bay military endorsement ( although on the surface it does look like a "What if Michael Bay did the Avengers")

    Not to give too much credit to Millar, he can be downright awful and missing the mark by miles sometimes with his edgy writing, but I think at this time he tried to channel Warren Ellis more or less (I wholeheartedly agree with the Authority recommendation above btw).

  11. #15656

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balakin View Post
    I really think Millar, as a Scotsman, had a more satirical approach to this rather than a straight forward, Michael Bay military endorsement ( although on the surface it does look like a "What if Michael Bay did the Avengers")

    Not to give too much credit to Millar, he can be downright awful and missing the mark by miles sometimes with his edgy writing, but I think at this time he tried to channel Warren Ellis more or less (I wholeheartedly agree with the Authority recommendation above btw).
    I think it can be read as satirical; but the rest of the Ultimate Marvel Universe (save for Ultimate Spidey) had a similar bent.

    Nevertheless, The Ultimates were the height of edge-lord comicdom; which is entertaining for the novelty alone

  12. #15657
    Moderator Balakin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    I think it can be read as satirical; but the rest of the Ultimate Marvel Universe (save for Ultimate Spidey) had a similar bent.

    Nevertheless, The Ultimates were the height of edge-lord comicdom; which is entertaining for the novelty alone
    Yeah that's fair, although not sure how much of it was intentional. Warren Ellis and Millar probably done it on purpose and the rest (like Kirkman and Loeb) just went in guns blazing and missed the mark just a bit (well...Loeb missed it a lot).

  13. #15658
    Make Mine Marvel (Mostly) j0nnyboy's Avatar
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    Is there a reliable website that shows the weekly releases of Marvel omnibus? It's basically a guessing game for me at this point and with dates getting postponed a lot recently where can we go to see what is actually being released week to week?

  14. #15659
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0nnyboy View Post
    Is there a reliable website that shows the weekly releases of Marvel omnibus? It's basically a guessing game for me at this point and with dates getting postponed a lot recently where can we go to see what is actually being released week to week?
    I would suggest checking IST Tuesdays at 3 ET for new releases. They put the swamp thing omni up today but of course it sold out within 30 mins. They’re getting very limited supply. I wish I got the standard cover JMS Spidey Omni Vol 2 but I wanted the variant. Now I might not be able to get either. As you said though, the releases right now are totally random. The schedule has been totally upended. They’re just putting up what they get at this point it seems with no logic as to when certain stuff is coming out.

  15. #15660
    Of the O'Sullivan Clan Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0nnyboy View Post
    Is there a reliable website that shows the weekly releases of Marvel omnibus? It's basically a guessing game for me at this point and with dates getting postponed a lot recently where can we go to see what is actually being released week to week?
    I'd presume Previews will soon have reliable release dates for a few weeks ahead now that distribution is due to start up again. But anything longer than that might be still up in the air while publishers and distributors readjust their schedules.

    I noticed that Previewsworld doesn't presently show any Marvel omnibuses due for release in 2020 after 8th July - https://previewsworld.com/Search?mod...ate=2020-12-31. Excalibur is no longer listed, nor are the Uncanny X-Men omni reprints, She-Hulk by Dan Slott, or the 2nd Peter David omnibus, just to name a few.

    I'd imagine Diamond will relist them once Marvel has figured out a new release schedule.

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