All New Marvel Collected Editions

[Captain Craig]

+1

Adding to that: The increased pace of sheer book output. ...... Several directions here that don't align very well with my bank account and my mood to keep up or even bother to try collecting the stuff in the next year...

This is why in the 90's I got out of Star Wars action figure collecting. I'm able to buy what I want with the Marvel Omni's but the last 2yrs life has "gotten in the way"(honey if you're reading I'd marry you all over again) and I'm about to start an addition/remodel on the house so my reading schedule and purchase power are going to take a hit in 2017.
Unlike SW action figs I'm not currently planning to ditch my library of hardcover books. I've been selling off lots of floppies though on Ebay.

[grahamgg]

Need some opinions on the material when Ben Reilly was Spider-Man...

I just finished up the Carnage Classic trade, and enjoyed the few issues where Ben was Spider-Man.

I know there is some controversy over the Clone Saga as a whole, and not that many people were thrilled when the Omnibus was revealed.

However, how are the stories following the Clone Saga? I see there are 6 collections of "The Complete Ben Reilly Epic". I was thinking about picking the first one up, but wanted to see if anyone had some positive or negative comments on the stories.

People generally like Ben Reilly even while hating the Clone Saga overall and the machinations that tried to position him as the one and only "real" spider-man. There's a reason Marvel put out those Complete Ben Reilly trades--people wanted them! Although I personally have never read them.

I'm gonna make this "short" because I could go on and on about this for hours.

#1 - The clone saga STARTED great! Lots of mysterious things going on, lots of old characters coming back, new villains being introduced and it was neat to see what the clone had been up to in the last 19 years (5 years comic time). The beginning of the clone saga up thru ASM #400 is pretty good stuff. Even for early 1990s Marvel. Maybe you could extend the good part thru the reveal issue of Spec #226. But the gap between ASM #400 and Spec #226 had some pretty pitiful filler material for a few months (Trial of Peter Parker...ugh).

#2 - Allegedly (based on some info I've read by Tom DeFalco & Howard Mackie) the clone saga event was originally supposed to peak around ASM #400 with the death of Aunt May, the revelation that she knew Pete was Spidey all along and blessed him for it, and the reveal that Pete was the clone and Ben was the "real" Peter Parker. Then things would have hummed along for roughly six months when they'd do another reveal and restore Pete as the one, true, Spider-Man and all would be great. Maybe the clone would even be spun off into his own new series (similar things were happening then back at Marvel & DC: Thor/Thunderstrike, Superman/Superboy/Steel, Batman/Azreal, etc so there was a precedent). When Ben was revealed as the one, true, Spidey in Spec #226 things went off the rails, readers dropped the books, and things turned very sour.

#3 - Because marketing got involved, they demanded that the story line keep going-and-going and it got so convoluted that no one knew what to do with it. Not the editors, not marketing, certainly not the writers. The middle third of the story line is basically one long padded out story that goes no where, and contains many VERY BAD comics. Some of the Ben as Spidey stuff is ok (the Spider-Carnage arc you mention is one), and Dan Jurgens had already started machinations to return Peter as the original Spidey (over in his book, Sensational Spider-Man, by introducing a skeleton that had been found by Ben & Pete which was also apparently a clone of Spider-Man). Some of Jurgens' Senational Spidey stuff was good but you could tell editorial wanted him to tread water and as a result he never resolved the skeleton story line and eventually left after only 7 issues due to editorial meddling.

#4 After almost 2 years, in fall 1996, the conclusion finally came with the Revelations story arc which revealed Norman Osborn had been behind the entire thing (ugh) and Pete was once again Spidey with Ben dying in battle with the Green Goblin and degenerating into a pile of dust (double ugh). In-and-of-itself the Revelations arc wasn't that bad, the problem was it didn't explain anything. You had to wait until another one shot comic was published, post-climax, called the Goblin Journal (or something like that) to learn how Normal did all he claimed to do, and how he'd manipulated everything from behind the scenes since his death in the classic ASM #121-122.

So to summarize: It started pretty great, went off the rails with the revelation that Ben was actually the true Peter Parker, messed around for another year and a half's worth of bad, bad, 1990s comics then finally concluded in an ok story, if you add in the Goblin Journal with all the explanations.

PS .. in that Carnage book you recently read, how dumb was the Larry Hama written limited series where Carnage figures out how to send his symbiotic tendrils thru a modem and pop out via any computer on the web (ugh to infinity and back).

[grahamgg]

This is why in the 90's I got out of Star Wars action figure collecting. I'm able to buy what I want with the Marvel Omni's but the last 2yrs life has "gotten in the way"(honey if you're reading I'd marry you all over again) and I'm about to start an addition/remodel on the house so my reading schedule and purchase power are going to take a hit in 2017.
Unlike SW action figs I'm not currently planning to ditch my library of hardcover books. I've been selling off lots of floppies though on Ebay.

You and me both! I have a similar story. The last month we sold our house in GA and moved to OH and at times, I was like, why am I keeping all this comics junk? It's just taking up space and I have no idea when I'll ever be able to read it all! There were times I just wanted to drive to the dumpster and throw hoards of TPBs and HCs in the bin! But I didn't. Mostly...

PS ... came across about 3 rubbermaid boxes of my old 1990s SW action figs during the move. Looking thru them made me smile for those fun days-gone-by. My college roommate and I were HUGE into that crap back in the day! Remember the long/short lightsaber variants and the Han Solo with "carbonite freezing chamber" sticker? LOL

[OldManBrian]

You and me both! I have a similar story. The last month we sold our house in GA and moved to OH and at times, I was like, why am I keeping all this comics junk? It's just taking up space and I have no idea when I'll ever be able to read it all! There were times I just wanted to drive to the dumpster and throw hoards of TPBs and HCs in the bin! But I didn't. Mostly...

PS ... came across about 3 rubbermaid boxes of my old 1990s SW action figs during the move. Looking thru them made me smile for those fun days-gone-by. My college roommate and I were HUGE into that crap back in the day! Remember the long/short lightsaber variants and the Han Solo with "carbonite freezing chamber" sticker? LOL

Oh man, I think a lot of us can share similar experiences on the Star Wars figs. I still have boxes of them taking up room in my garage. When my now 8 year old son was born I almost tried to sell them, but talked myself out of it and thought I'd give them to him to play with as he grew up. Like said, he's now 8 and still has no interest in Star Wars pretty much whatsoever. On the plus side, he does love superheroes.

[Andru]

I'm gonna make this "short" because I could go on and on about this for hours.

#1 - The clone saga STARTED great! Lots of mysterious things going on, lots of old characters coming back, new villains being introduced and it was neat to see what the clone had been up to in the last 19 years (5 years comic time). The beginning of the clone saga up thru ASM #400 is pretty good stuff. Even for early 1990s Marvel. Maybe you could extend the good part thru the reveal issue of Spec #226. But the gap between ASM #400 and Spec #226 had some pretty pitiful filler material for a few months (Trial of Peter Parker...ugh).

#2 - Allegedly (based on some info I've read by Tom DeFalco & Howard Mackie) the clone saga event was originally supposed to peak around ASM #400 with the death of Aunt May, the revelation that she knew Pete was Spidey all along and blessed him for it, and the reveal that Pete was the clone and Ben was the "real" Peter Parker. Then things would have hummed along for roughly six months when they'd do another reveal and restore Pete as the one, true, Spider-Man and all would be great. Maybe the clone would even be spun off into his own new series (similar things were happening then back at Marvel & DC: Thor/Thunderstrike, Superman/Superboy/Steel, Batman/Azreal, etc so there was a precedent). When Ben was revealed as the one, true, Spidey in Spec #226 things went off the rails, readers dropped the books, and things turned very sour.

#3 - Because marketing got involved, they demanded that the story line keep going-and-going and it got so convoluted that no one knew what to do with it. Not the editors, not marketing, certainly not the writers. The middle third of the story line is basically one long padded out story that goes no where, and contains many VERY BAD comics. Some of the Ben as Spidey stuff is ok (the Spider-Carnage arc you mention is one), and Dan Jurgens had already started machinations to return Peter as the original Spidey (over in his book, Sensational Spider-Man, by introducing a skeleton that had been found by Ben & Pete which was also apparently a clone of Spider-Man). Some of Jurgens' Senational Spidey stuff was good but you could tell editorial wanted him to tread water and as a result he never resolved the skeleton story line and eventually left after only 7 issues due to editorial meddling.

#4 After almost 2 years, in fall 1996, the conclusion finally came with the Revelations story arc which revealed Norman Osborn had been behind the entire thing (ugh) and Pete was once again Spidey with Ben dying in battle with the Green Goblin and degenerating into a pile of dust (double ugh). In-and-of-itself the Revelations arc wasn't that bad, the problem was it didn't explain anything. You had to wait until another one shot comic was published, post-climax, called the Goblin Journal (or something like that) to learn how Normal did all he claimed to do, and how he'd manipulated everything from behind the scenes since his death in the classic ASM #121-122.

So to summarize: It started pretty great, went off the rails with the revelation that Ben was actually the true Peter Parker, messed around for another year and a half's worth of bad, bad, 1990s comics then finally concluded in an ok story, if you add in the Goblin Journal with all the explanations.

PS .. in that Carnage book you recently read, how dumb was the Larry Hama written limited series where Carnage figures out how to send his symbiotic tendrils thru a modem and pop out via any computer on the web (ugh to infinity and back).

Wow, thank you!! Now I am even more conflicted haha. I actually ordered the first Ben Reilly Epic collection. So I will give that a read and then go from there...

I would like to just completely block that Hama story out of my mind haha. It had to have been one of the most ridiculous stories I have read in a while.

[OldManBrian]

Yep that is true Brian, its not like I NEED to collect Marvel,DC, etc.. in oversized content. Each individual needs to decide what is worth it for them and what they can afford on their budget. I guess overall I look back at when I started collecting comics and how things stand now:

- I realllly love the library editions put out by Dark Horse (Fear Agent / The Goon / Hellboy).

- Why: Very good cost, oversized (almost paper size of an absolute) and thick deluxe paper.

- Living in Southwest Ontario, where we get really humid summers and then dry winters, this heavy paperstock holds up much better to humidity fluctuation. The thin, colored comic paper is very susceptible and typically is already wavy by the time it gets delivered.

- Its hard to ignore the library editions on my shelf, and the value on what I paid for those books, and what I would need to pay for newer library editions and then to compare to the newer Marvel offerings.

- Now that Marvel continues to use really thin paper , and the ever increasing price creep, and the fact I have limited funds, makes me want to stop buying their oversized content (same with DC).

I have no doubt that there will be oversized Marvel content I will still want to collect next year. It overall just bugs me to no end because Marvel can afford to release oversized content with higher paper quality. The Amazing Spider Man Omnibus I own is fantastic (Binding, bright-thick paper so McFarlanes art pops off the page).If Dark Horse can afford to do it... But we know its not because Marvel can't afford to release their content with higher quality paper at the prices they charge, but they realize people buy it anyways so they can get away it.

Yeah, I agree with you. The paper is pretty annoying, especially when we know the quality they've used in the past. I think it's pretty much the same stock they use on the paperbacks, which I agree is sub-par for these OHC and omnis. We should probably all take the time to write an honest, and most importantly, courteous letter to whoever the head of the collections department is and hope they understand the disappointment of the community that has long supported these formats. Who knows if it will help going forward. Just me, but I'd even prefer a slight price increase if that's what it took to keep the quality up, though it would likely be a few less books I'd buy a year.

[UltimateTy]

Nice
Young Avengers by Allen Heinberg and Jim Cheung: The Complete Collection

[Raffi Ol D'Arcy]

The complete estimated comic book sales figures for July 2016 are in (please note this list only details those comics sold to North American Comics Shops as reported by Diamond). I’ve listed below the Marvel OHC/Omnibus/MMW’s as well as the larger TPB collections such as the Epic, Ultimate and Complete lines that made the list, detailing the position, title, est. sales (plus total reported est. sales).

12. Star Wars Darth Vader OHC Vol. 1 - 3,323
40. X-23 Complete Collection Vol. 1 - 1,802
49. Daredevil Epic Collection Man Without Fear - 1,649
70. Machine Man By Kirby and Ditko Complete Collection - 1,378
80. Deadpool Minibus - 1,249 (3,203)
81. Marvel Masterworks Ms Marvel HC Vol. 2 - 1,249
86. X-Men Trial of Gambit - 1,162
100. Avengers Time Runs Out OHC - 1,042
104. Avengers By John Byrne Omnibus - 1,007
113. Jack Kirby Mighty Thor Artist Edition (IDW) - 959
147. Marvels Thor Dark World Art of Movie Slipcase - 762 (2,368)
148. Howard the Duck Complete Collection Vol. 3 - 762
156. Spider-Man Brand New Day Complete Collection Vol. 2 - 715
161. Marvels Iron Man 3 Slipcase Art of Movie - 702 (2,441)
181. Hawkeye and Thunderbolts Vol. 2 - 625
191. Deadpool By Daniel Way Complete Collection Vol. 1 - 591 (28,983)
193. Avengers By Bendis Heroic Age OHC - 581 (2,597)
293. Marvel Firsts 1990s Vol. 2 - 375

For the sake of comparison, here are DC's Omni July sales:
120. Suicide Squad The Silver Age Omnibus Vol. 1 - 871
138. Superman The Golden Age Omnibus Vol. 2 - 802

[jgm7v3]

I'm gonna make this "short" because I could go on and on about this for hours.

#1 - The clone saga STARTED great! Lots of mysterious things going on, lots of old characters coming back, new villains being introduced and it was neat to see what the clone had been up to in the last 19 years (5 years comic time). The beginning of the clone saga up thru ASM #400 is pretty good stuff. Even for early 1990s Marvel. Maybe you could extend the good part thru the reveal issue of Spec #226. But the gap between ASM #400 and Spec #226 had some pretty pitiful filler material for a few months (Trial of Peter Parker...ugh).

#2 - Allegedly (based on some info I've read by Tom DeFalco & Howard Mackie) the clone saga event was originally supposed to peak around ASM #400 with the death of Aunt May, the revelation that she knew Pete was Spidey all along and blessed him for it, and the reveal that Pete was the clone and Ben was the "real" Peter Parker. Then things would have hummed along for roughly six months when they'd do another reveal and restore Pete as the one, true, Spider-Man and all would be great. Maybe the clone would even be spun off into his own new series (similar things were happening then back at Marvel & DC: Thor/Thunderstrike, Superman/Superboy/Steel, Batman/Azreal, etc so there was a precedent). When Ben was revealed as the one, true, Spidey in Spec #226 things went off the rails, readers dropped the books, and things turned very sour.

#3 - Because marketing got involved, they demanded that the story line keep going-and-going and it got so convoluted that no one knew what to do with it. Not the editors, not marketing, certainly not the writers. The middle third of the story line is basically one long padded out story that goes no where, and contains many VERY BAD comics. Some of the Ben as Spidey stuff is ok (the Spider-Carnage arc you mention is one), and Dan Jurgens had already started machinations to return Peter as the original Spidey (over in his book, Sensational Spider-Man, by introducing a skeleton that had been found by Ben & Pete which was also apparently a clone of Spider-Man). Some of Jurgens' Senational Spidey stuff was good but you could tell editorial wanted him to tread water and as a result he never resolved the skeleton story line and eventually left after only 7 issues due to editorial meddling.

#4 After almost 2 years, in fall 1996, the conclusion finally came with the Revelations story arc which revealed Norman Osborn had been behind the entire thing (ugh) and Pete was once again Spidey with Ben dying in battle with the Green Goblin and degenerating into a pile of dust (double ugh). In-and-of-itself the Revelations arc wasn't that bad, the problem was it didn't explain anything. You had to wait until another one shot comic was published, post-climax, called the Goblin Journal (or something like that) to learn how Normal did all he claimed to do, and how he'd manipulated everything from behind the scenes since his death in the classic ASM #121-122.

So to summarize: It started pretty great, went off the rails with the revelation that Ben was actually the true Peter Parker, messed around for another year and a half's worth of bad, bad, 1990s comics then finally concluded in an ok story, if you add in the Goblin Journal with all the explanations.

PS .. in that Carnage book you recently read, how dumb was the Larry Hama written limited series where Carnage figures out how to send his symbiotic tendrils thru a modem and pop out via any computer on the web (ugh to infinity and back).

This is a great post. I was delighted to read these insights. Thanks for sharing, man.

[harrycuong]

Doctor Strange omnibus.

TB2SGiWXPnyQeBjSszbXXbCxVXa_!!55121209.jpg

[WayneLW]

Doctor Strange omnibus.

TB2SGiWXPnyQeBjSszbXXbCxVXa_!!55121209.jpg

A month before release? How?

[mrjohnnykid]

Definitely getting the variant.

[DrGregatron]

Yeah, I agree with you. The paper is pretty annoying, especially when we know the quality they've used in the past. I think it's pretty much the same stock they use on the paperbacks, which I agree is sub-par for these OHC and omnis. We should probably all take the time to write an honest, and most importantly, courteous letter to whoever the head of the collections department is and hope they understand the disappointment of the community that has long supported these formats. Who knows if it will help going forward. Just me, but I'd even prefer a slight price increase if that's what it took to keep the quality up, though it would likely be a few less books I'd buy a year.

Marvel's more than happy to fulfill your slight (or greater) price increase...it's the improvement in quality they have a problem with.

[invisiblegardener]

A month before release? How?

China.10ch

[WayneLW]

China.10ch

Jealous! How much is 10 ch? Isn't that ridiculously cheap? (D'oh! 10 ch. Well, I'll leave the post here for people to laugh at.)