All New Marvel Collected Editions

[SJNeal]

To rescue the Phantom Rider character. He is probably slated for potential use in the MCU somewhere, while Mockingbird is shelved. So getting that character off the hook for his deeds in-continuity is imperative.

Bizarre Marvel moves in 616 (or whatever the hell it is now), can usually be explained by its usefulness to the MCU.

Hmmm. I want to agree with you (because I hate the fact that the comics are now second to the films), but in the case of the Phantom Rider...?

He was a D-list character at best, and I can't imagine they'd destroy Mockingbird - a character that already has a TV presence - in order to elevate him.

But who knows. Stranger things have happened...

[Canucked]

I loved Mockingbird. The first five issues are great and well drawn. Everyone pick up that trade. The second trade is unfortunate because the Tie In to Civil War II was a good concept. Without spoiling, some things that happen are direct results of CW2 and books change as CW2 goes on. But it is still it's own story. It's unfortunate that the ending is forever marred by that retcon, but I've seen honestly WORSE retcons in the MCU. The problem for me is this neat CW2 tie-in mystery completely drowned out by a (really fast and confusing) retcon ending instead of a needed resolution to what I though was a really fun series.

Picking up the second trade for those few good points of the tie in isn't worth it. And the Other issues in the second trade from Bendis' run really give more background for the first trade, since they actually deal a lot more with Mockingbird's mental health after her exposure to the serum and Infinty Formula.

[Captain Craig]

Firstly, I have no dog in the hunt on the perceived or real issue people took with Mockingbird #8. I laughed off the cover and I'm a more centrist, right leaning person.
I didn't find any particular line or panels to merit hatred, even in context of the "was it/wasn't it" rape altering her backstory of letting Phantom Rider die. Rape is bad period. That said, Bobbi letting him die...he was still a bad dude. Now, within the context of when it was told, the era, we understand the good guys just don't do that. Well, this was an exception to the rule for that era.

As for Mockingbird the series, which I bought to support a character I modestly liked from her AoS appearances and still hope to get back on the show, I found it very underwhelming. It was not a great read and I don't recommend it, I didn't recommend when chatting up books at the LCS with others. It was a book I bought and made clear if you bought it, it was cause you were supporting a character.

[The Flicker Fade]

Just my $.02, but there are enough strong female characters with rape in their backgrounds because hamfisted writers didn't understand how to write women and thought it was character-building. I'm happy to erase one, even if it has to be inelegantly like this.

And before anyone rushes to defend Steve Engelhart as never being "hamfisted" . . . Snap Wilson.

[invisiblegardener]

Just my $.02, but there are enough strong female characters with rape in their backgrounds because hamfisted writers didn't understand how to write women and thought it was character-building. I'm happy to erase one, even if it has to be inelegantly like this.

And before anyone rushes to defend Steve Engelhart as never being "hamfisted" . . . Snap Wilson.

I respect your $.02, but it seems problematic that readers and writers think that rape in a person's past is something that needs to be erased, or, as others have pointed out, that it is somehow something that can't/shouldn't happen to a heroic/strong woman. What about the formative, traumatic experiences that shaped Bruce Wayne, Matt Murdock, and countless others?

For that matter, do we even know that Mockingbird and Phantom Spirit had sex? We all might be a little hasty with the R-word.

[TomSlick]

So Mockingbird went from a rape victim to a whore.
OK . . . whatever.
She was a lame-ass character in the 80s. Kind of like her appearances in Slott's ASM, tho.
Haven't read her main series although I might not due to all the complaining. It's the "Passion of Christ" mentality, I suppose.

[The Flicker Fade]

I respect your $.02, but it seems problematic that readers and writers think that rape in a person's past is something that needs to be erased, or, as others have pointed out, that it is somehow something that can't/shouldn't happen to a heroic/strong woman. What about the formative, traumatic experiences that shaped Bruce Wayne, Matt Murdock, and countless others?

For that matter, do we even know that Mockingbird and Phantom Spirit had sex? We all might be a little hasty with the R-word.

The problem isn't that it happens to some heroic/strong women. The problem is that it happens to so many of them. The longer a character exists, the better the chances of her being raped eventually, as writers who don't fully understand (or care) about all the implications of what they're doing reach for a "transformative, traumatic" experience to put her through. And since these characters exist perpetually, sooner or later almost all female characters have been raped or sexually assaulted in some way. And, taken as a whole, that's not a great thing for your fictional universe. It casts a real pallor, ya know?

Then, on top of that, often it's done in a hamfisted or lazy way. It's used as cheap drama, so it makes the characters feel cheapened.

Jessica Jones is an example of a character where it's done right. It's not cheap. Any source of trauma/drama can and should be mined for stories sometimes. Nothing should ever be entirely off limits. The key is to keep your eye on the big picture. I feel erasing this from Mockingbird's past helps the big picture, even if it wasn't handled elegantly.

[The Whovian]

Moving away from that, has anyone picked up the Kaare Andrews IF?

I was waiting to see if Marvel would publish it in HC, but after waiting a long time, I figured that they just aren't going to. Shame. Anyhow, I bought the two trades. Haven't read them yet though because I'm waaaay behind on my reading stack.

[krisis]

Moving away from that, has anyone picked up the Kaare Andrews IF?

I hated it... so... much. Flames. On the side of my face. Breathing, breath... heaving breaths. Heaving...

Sorry, my emotions got the better of me for a moment there.

It looked really, really cool. It actively disassembled pretty much everything great that happened in the Immortal volume. Like, specifically just runs it all. If you hadn't read that run I guess it was okay, but then I'd just tell you to read that run instead because it is amazing.

[The Whovian]

I hated it... so... much. Flames. On the side of my face. Breathing, breath... heaving breaths. Heaving...

Sorry, my emotions got the better of me for a moment there.

It looked really, really cool. It actively disassembled pretty much everything great that happened in the Immortal volume. Like, specifically just runs it all. If you hadn't read that run I guess it was okay, but then I'd just tell you to read that run instead because it is amazing.

Ugh. Not happy to read this. I loved Immortal IF.

[Peter Parker]

I'd love to see this MB topic move elsewhere. I consider these new absurd $$/issue trades to be the real issue. All the rest a red herring!

[Mr`Orange]

With the pound taking a battering and the discounts we get minimal the price of Marvel trades makes collecting them prohibitive. Also with some many great Image, smaller publisher and European comics out there coupled with the fact I have a Marvel Unlimited subscription I just don't see the point of buying them.

[Dayle88]

Ugh. Not happy to read this. I loved Immortal IF.

As a story on it's own it's entertaining enough to not be bored by it. I couldn't get over the fact that he just removed all the great things that came before without actually adding anything at all. IIF is and should be as definitive as Danny's origin. Which, for some reason, Andrews thought IIF ignored. Having read all of it I don't understand where he got that from. Be glad it isn't in hardcover because it's not a waste of time but is completely forgettable.

[Drakul]

Super excited about the Spidey stuff.
I'm definitely getting the Michelinie omni and not sure about Tangled Web yet since I have all the Best Of OHCs.

Talking of reprints, I half expect the next Marvel solicitations to have the Daredevil Bendis Vol. 1 Omni, followed by Vol. 2 in the next month. It would also be cool to have the Iron Fist Omni reprinted when Iron Fist hits the small screen. I'm also hoping for an IF Omni reprinting the 2 MMWs/Epic along with some extra stuff.

I have both Bendis and Bru vol2s but I'm lacking the first ones so I hope that happens.

[Yaggi_Rck]

Having recently read IIF, it was good but I'm not sure it was quite the masterpiece it's regarded as. spoilers:

The whole 'Yu-Ti/K'un Lun conflict came out of nowhere for me, and Xao's menace being left unresolved felt shallow. Nonetheless, t was a great excercise in mythology-expansion, and the characer dynamics where superbly handled.

end of spoilers
Overall, from the same creative team (minus Brubaker), Hawkeye felt more choerent and more 'complete'.