All New Marvel Collected Editions

[mike1981]

Hickman wrote the first 12 issues

Sort of; he wrote 1-9, but 10-12 were co written with Humphries.

...and they were terrible.

[Mix_Masta_Micah]

Sort of; he wrote 1-9, but 10-12 were co written with Humphries.

...and they were terrible.

Nah son. The Maker alone makes it worthwhile.

[mike1981]

Nah son. The Maker alone makes it worthwhile.

Using phrases that sound cool, like "The Maker" or "the Republic is Burning " doesn't make up for a horrible story.

But that's the essence of Hickman; lots of words put together in interesting ways that ultimately say nothing.

[kodave]

Can anyone clear up the modern Thanos reading order?

Starlin, in an interview with Newsarama, said the chronological order is as follows:
Thanos Annual (collected in Thanos: A God Up There Listening)
Thanos vs. The Hulk
Thanos: The Infinity Revelation
Thanos: The Infinity Relativity
The Infinity Entity
Thanos: The Infinity Finale

But other sites say the chronological reading order is:
Thanos: The Infinity Revelation
Thanos vs. The Hulk
Thanos: The Infinity Relativity

Thoughts?

[Brewman]

Can anyone clear up the modern Thanos reading order?

Starlin, in an interview with Newsarama, said the chronological order is as follows:
Thanos Annual (collected in Thanos: A God Up There Listening)
Thanos vs. The Hulk
Thanos: The Infinity Revelation
Thanos: The Infinity Relativity
The Infinity Entity
Thanos: The Infinity Finale

But other sites say the chronological reading order is:
Thanos: The Infinity Revelation
Thanos vs. The Hulk
Thanos: The Infinity Relativity

Thoughts?

I would have to side with Starlin. I haven't started this cycle of books yet, I am waiting to go through the Hickman epic arc including Infinity. I am just not sure how you could argue with the author who has the whole picture in his head. Unless he got misquoted.
Edit: Just did a quick search and on Marvel.com story about Entity it says it bridges Relativity and Finale like vs. Hulk bridged revelation and relativity, and that is a quote attributed to Starlin. So good question.....

[Mix_Masta_Micah]

Using phrases that sound cool, like "The Maker" or "the Republic is Burning " doesn't make up for a horrible story.

But that's the essence of Hickman; lots of words put together in interesting ways that ultimately say nothing.

That's where I think you're wrong. The Maker is Reed Richards unhinged; what happens when the world's (universe's?) smartest is ultimately devoid of emotion or conscience? That's the point of the story in my eyes. He had to leave the book early for greener pastures so that may be why you feel that way.

His other works have interesting arcs and/or stories; that's where I'm confused. Secret Warriors, S.H.I.E.L.D., Fantastic Four, Avengers/New Avengers, Secret Wars, his Image work all say something depending on the series you are looking at. Heck, you can go meta with most of his stuff including the massive event that is Secret Wars (a look at the modern big two and how Doom rebels against his "creators"). There's plenty of themes with something to say (life/death) in the mentioned books in my eyes.

[PLEDGE]

That's where I think you're wrong. The Maker is Reed Richards unhinged; what happens when the world's (universe's?) smartest is ultimately devoid of emotion or conscience? That's the point of the story in my eyes. He had to leave the book early for greener pastures so that may be why you feel that way.

His other works have interesting arcs and/or stories; that's where I'm confused. Secret Warriors, S.H.I.E.L.D., Fantastic Four, Avengers/New Avengers, Secret Wars, his Image work all say something depending on the series you are looking at. Heck, you can go meta with most of his stuff including the massive event that is Secret Wars (a look at the modern big two and how Doom rebels against his "creators"). There's plenty of themes with something to say (life/death) in the mentioned books in my eyes.

I agree with you completely. Hickman is all about merging high concepts and themes and then giving it a slick coat of paint. Plots are mapped out so far ahead..that every little intricacy and domino that falls, plays a role in the larger whole. I really appreciate his attention to detail and creating a damn near perfect marriage between the story telling and the aesthetics. Unfortunately, the characterisation does suffer from time to time..but I see it as a sacrifice to make way for something grander. If he can find a way to develop a bit more warmth to his characters..more human moments...man Hickman will be unstoppable.

[mike1981]

That's where I think you're wrong. The Maker is Reed Richards unhinged; what happens when the world's (universe's?) smartest is ultimately devoid of emotion or conscience? That's the point of the story in my eyes. He had to leave the book early for greener pastures so that may be why you feel that way.

His other works have interesting arcs and/or stories; that's where I'm confused. Secret Warriors, S.H.I.E.L.D., Fantastic Four, Avengers/New Avengers, Secret Wars, his Image work all say something depending on the series you are looking at. Heck, you can go meta with most of his stuff including the massive event that is Secret Wars (a look at the modern big two and how Doom rebels against his "creators"). There's plenty of themes with something to say (life/death) in the mentioned books in my eyes.

I disagree.

I've said this before; Hickman's Marvel work reads like my old undergrad engineering texts (and is about as compelling). He populates his stories with all these ideas, but very rarely develops them into interesting stories. He writes a string of admittedly interesting sounding sound bites, but I have not once felt pulled into any sort of narrative.

In general, he also fails to inject any characterization into his stories. Avengers / New Avengers / Infinity could honestly be told with any super hero archetypes without having to change anything. E.g., his Avengers isn't really an Avengers story; it's a Hickman story. His only Marvel work that felt like it needed to be told in it's particular book was Fantastic Four; it was actually a Fantastic Four story before anything.

It's great that you seem to like his stuff. Maybe it's because of my background and work history, but I don't find anything interesting in the Marvel books of his that I've read.

[mtop2036]

All I can say about hickman is I have yet to read something of his I havnt been blown away by. I never ever ever though I would be a FF fan, but hickman changed that for me. Even made me interested in stan lees run. And all the massive build up in his avengers work is great, although I havnt read time runs out or secret wars.

As far as The maker goes, im quite interested in reed going crazy or whatever happens to him. Its to the point where i'm going to track down all the UFF ohcs just to learn his character in the U universe and see him change into the maker.

And besides ultimates, spider man, FF what else is good in the ultimate universe? I know to stay away from ultimatum, although depending on how deep I get into the UU I may pick it up just to understand what happens to the characters.

[mike1981]

And besides ultimates, spider man, FF what else is good in the ultimate universe? I know to stay away from ultimatum, although depending on how deep I get into the UU I may pick it up just to understand what happens to the characters.

I could swear you asked this same question recently and received some pretty insightful responses...

[kodave]

I would have to side with Starlin. I haven't started this cycle of books yet, I am waiting to go through the Hickman epic arc including Infinity. I am just not sure how you could argue with the author who has the whole picture in his head. Unless he got misquoted.
Edit: Just did a quick search and on Marvel.com story about Entity it says it bridges Relativity and Finale like vs. Hulk bridged revelation and relativity, and that is a quote attributed to Starlin. So good question.....

Yeah, here's that Marvel.Com quote I believe you're referencing:

“I felt the changes in Adam in this storyline just couldn't be squeezed into the space available and decided to augment,” he reveals. “This series is a part of the ongoing Thanos epic I’ve been working on in the trio of graphic novels. Just as THANOS VS. HULK bridged the first novel with the second, INFINITY ENTITY connects the second with the third.”

But here's the earlier Newsarama quote, bolded are my inserts:

Starlin: Chronologically our epic goes as follows: The Thanos Annual to Thanos vs The Hulk, to The Infinity Revelation to The Infinity Relativity to (possibly) an unnamed miniseries [now known as The Infinity Entity] and it all comes to a climax in my third and final yet-to-entitled Thanos graphic novel [now known as Thanos: The Infinity Finale].

Wikipedia says this which aligns itself with the Newsarama quote, but the bit about Thanos Vs. The Hulk isn't sourced (emphasis mine):

In May 2014, Jim Starlin and Ron Lim worked together on the one-shot Thanos Annual, which is a prelude to a new trilogy of original graphic novels. The first, Thanos: The Infinity Revelation, was released the following August.[7][8] Beginning in February 2015, Starlin also penned a four-issue miniseries titled Thanos vs. Hulk, which was set prior to the graphic novels. The second installment in the trilogy, Thanos: The Infinity Relativity, was released in June, 2015.[9] The third graphic novel, Thanos: The Infinity Finale, as well as the connected mini-series The Infinity Entity are announced for Spring 2016.[10]

I just found another Marvel.Com quote, this time from an interview:

Marvel.com: Jim, does THANOS VS. HULK lead off from any previous tales of yours? Can an interested reader come in cold?

Jim Starlin: A reader only has to know who the Hulk and Thanos are—which is just about anyone who knows the name Marvel these days. The story is self contained, even though it is part of the tale begun in THANOS ANNUAL and the INFINITY REVELATION original graphic novel. Strangely enough, though, this story takes place before INFINITY REVELATION, as did THANOS ANNUAL.

And here's an interview with our CBR overlords:

CBR News: When we spoke about "Thanos Vs Hulk," you mentioned that the finale would set up several major cosmic players for your next Marvel project, and "Thanos: The Infinity Relativity" is that next project. How much story time passes between the two tales? Will "Thanos Vs Hulk" end with a cliffhanger to be picked up in "The Infinity Relativity?"

Jim Starlin: No, on the cliffhanger question. Like the "Thanos Annual," the "Thanos vs The Hulk" story takes place before "Thanos: The Infinity Revelation." So, there is an indeterminate amount of time between my first graphic novel and this new graphic novel.

I too haven't had a chance to read these yet and at this point will probably wait until Entity & Finale are both out. But it seems like Thanos Vs. The Hulk is definitely pre-Infinity Revelation but perhaps the events of that book become more relevant in Infinity Relativity, hence it acts like a bridge even if it chronologically isn't one.

Now watch Marvel make a "Thanos: The Infinity Omnibus by Jim Starlin" collection with the Annual, three OGNs and two minis but place Thanos Vs. The Hulk between the two OGNs.

[mtop2036]

I could swear you asked this same question recently and received some pretty insightful responses...

I asked about ultimate X men i believe, although you could be correct. sorry if I asked twice

[csista]

And besides ultimates, spider man, FF what else is good in the ultimate universe? I know to stay away from ultimatum, although depending on how deep I get into the UU I may pick it up just to understand what happens to the characters.

While I have a fondness for most of it, here's how I would break it down, sticking to titles collected in OHC, omnibus, or ultimate/complete collections:

Ultimate Spider-Man is great all the way through, continuing through Miles Morales. Highly recommend.

Ultimate X-Men is good until Kirkman takes over, so OHC Vol. 1-6. And if you're a fan of Kirkman's Image work, like Walking Dead or Invincible, that won't change anything. I love those books, but his Ultimate X-Men run was weak.

Ultimate FF is solid through the first three OHCs. After that, it's a bit tricky to say. Mike Carey takes over, and I'm personally not a fan of his work. Just doesn't grab my attention at all. But his Ultimate Thanos storyline has it's fans, as the inflated OOP price of OHC vol. 5 will show.

Ultimates 1 and 2 are outstanding. Heavily influenced the Avengers movies. They're the reason Sam Jackson is Nick Fury. But Ultimates 3 is terrible, avoid it.

Ultimate Marvel Team-Up was a mess. It resulted in a few soft-retcons early in a universe that was supposed to be a clean start with no confusion for new readers. It's beginning of what turned out to ultimately be a failed experiment.

Ultimate Galactus Trilogy is pretty good. Ultimate Power was a letdown as a fan of the two universes that were crossing over.

Then there's Ultimatum. Believe what you've heard. It's a mess. I admit to enjoying it as the trainwreck that it is in a so-bad-it's-good way, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. The Ultimate line of titles (except Spidey) were floundering, but with the right creators could have recovered. Not after this debacle. It's not the nail in the coffin, but it is the gut shot that led to needing a coffin.

Mark Milar's return to the Ultimates was kind of a dud.

Ultimate Doomsday is okay. Cataclysm is adequate. Haven't read all of Divided We Fall, United We Stand, so can't weigh in on that.

So there it is, for anyone thinking of trying the Ultimate books, since they seem to be a topic these last few pages.

[Raffi Ol D'Arcy]

If you can find it cheap, go for it. It's 5 one-shots that introduced some of the characters that appear in Spider-Verse proper, and they're all pretty entertaining (with the exception of Gerard Way's chapter, which did nothing for me).

However it's in no way "essential" to enjoying the main event.

Many thanks SJ for that brief and informative post 😉

[Brewman]

Yeah, here's that Marvel.Com quote I believe you're referencing:


But here's the earlier Newsarama quote, bolded are my inserts:


Wikipedia says this which aligns itself with the Newsarama quote, but the bit about Thanos Vs. The Hulk isn't sourced (emphasis mine):


I just found another Marvel.Com quote, this time from an interview:


And here's an interview with our CBR overlords:


I too haven't had a chance to read these yet and at this point will probably wait until Entity & Finale are both out. But it seems like Thanos Vs. The Hulk is definitely pre-Infinity Revelation but perhaps the events of that book become more relevant in Infinity Relativity, hence it acts like a bridge even if it chronologically isn't one.

Now watch Marvel make a "Thanos: The Infinity Omnibus by Jim Starlin" collection with the Annual, three OGNs and two minis but place Thanos Vs. The Hulk between the two OGNs.

That was the quote. Sounds like it can be read either placement. I hope they at least do a ohc of entity and vs hulk. It would not be cool to have Ohc, ohc, tpb, ohc, tpb, ohc for this run. I would much rather have to switch to different book twice in a reading order and have uniformity.