DC Hardcover Collected Editions Part 3

[pud333]

Getting massively off topic here but over in the UK we've seen time and time again this just isn't true, take a look at the success rate of something like Operation Yewtree look at the huge list of people who weren't prosecuted or (for example) the Dave Lee Travis case where there only managed to get a guilty verdict on one of about 13 charges, or look at the way the police handled the Cliff Richard case, high profile arrest that they allowed the BBC to broadcast live all over the TV ruining him in the public image and then subsequently dropping all charges.

These are absolutely horrible crimes Gerard Jones is being accused of and If people don't want to buy his books to give him royalties while this case is being prosecuted then I support peoples rights to do so, but please don't make the mistake of assuming that the police are competant at their jobs, its been proven time and time again all over the world that its just not true.

This. That's why the law doesn't stop at just the police investigation. Trials exist for a reason.

[TomSlick]

Reading his books and even enjoying them is not the same as endorsing pedophilia. I loved his Men of Tomorrow and the Comic Book Heroes. I liked Mosaic and Trouble with Girls. I liked his Prime book (which is a little creepy upon reflection now).


He might profit some from the royalties from those books, so you might have qualms about that. But acknowledging that he was a talented writer (for the 90's) is not endorsing his crimes.

I don't disagree with what you're saying and, yes, you do have to separate the author from the work and the author from the narrator. But for me - if I was reading his work now - I wouldn't be able to get it out of my head. In other words, the great stories that I would want to reread would be contaminated for me.

Maybe DC will collect the Marz stuff as well as Winnick's run in new collections instead.

[Vilynne]

I don't disagree with what you're saying and, yes, you do have to separate the author from the work and the author from the narrator. But for me - if I was reading his work now - I wouldn't be able to get it out of my head. In other words, the great stories that I would want to reread would be contaminated for me.

Maybe DC will collect the Marz stuff as well as Winnick's run in new collections instead.

I'm in the minority of fans that like Kyle Rayner, so I'd be happy with a new Ion collection.

[The Flicker Fade]

Getting massively off topic here but over in the UK we've seen time and time again this just isn't true, take a look at the success rate of something like Operation Yewtree look at the huge list of people who weren't prosecuted or (for example) the Dave Lee Travis case where there only managed to get a guilty verdict on one of about 13 charges, or look at the way the police handled the Cliff Richard case, high profile arrest that they allowed the BBC to broadcast live all over the TV ruining him in the public image and then subsequently dropping all charges.

These are absolutely horrible crimes Gerard Jones is being accused of and If people don't want to buy his books to give him royalties while this case is being prosecuted then I support peoples rights to do so, but please don't make the mistake of assuming that the police are competant at their jobs, its been proven time and time again all over the world that its just not true.

It's quite a bit different, involving allegations from victims about offenses that took place decades ago. Justice for sexual assault when it's the victim's word against the perpetrator's is notoriously hard to achieve, let alone when significant time has passed. Plus it was a reactionary investigation with lots of public scrutiny that probably led the police to be overzealous, not wanting to be accused of failing to thoroughly investigate, even if what that investigation turned up proved to be unsupportable in court they would have wanted to err on the side of bringing charges. None of these are factors in this case. I'm quite sure that when it's all said and done, the police will be proven to have done their diligence.

Regardless, your point is true. Due process exists for a reason. I don't mean to suggest otherwise. We don't know he's guilty, but I do feel we can already be reasonably confident.

[SJNeal]

Good point. I guess if the royalties to go to the victims, that's a whole lot better. What shocking, repugnant news. Ive never heard anyone in comics do anything like this. Its horrible.

It's not the first time, unfortunately...

[TomSlick]

I'm in the minority of fans that like Kyle Rayner, so I'd be happy with a new Ion collection.

Sadly, back in the day, Kyle was well thought of.
Then Geoff Johns came along and punked him out because we can't have anything nice. No Wally Flash, no Kyle GL. Naw, cause GJ wants to play in a different toybox . . . .
Don't get me wrong, he's a great writer and his GL was great, but Kyle and Wally kind of suck now and Johns is the one who laid that blueprint.

[ER Prest]

Sadly, back in the day, Kyle was well thought of.
Then Geoff Johns came along and punked him out because we can't have anything nice. No Wally Flash, no Kyle GL. Naw, cause GJ wants to play in a different toybox . . . .
Don't get me wrong, he's a great writer and his GL was great, but Kyle and Wally kind of suck now and Johns is the one who laid that blueprint.

Which is weird because he wrote like 100 issues of Wally.

I'm also of the mindset that Barry was a better character by staying dead(although his return in Final Crisis was awesome, it should have been temporary...)

[The Lucky One]

This. That's why the law doesn't stop at just the police investigation. Trials exist for a reason.

You and drd are both correct that Gerard Jones deserves the presumption of innocence and a fair trial. Absolutely. The U.S. legal system is predicated on that, and of course we should all extend the benefit of the doubt unless and until evidence comes out at a trial that proves otherwise. I'm sure we all hope that the charges are untrue.

That being said, I also suggest we all temper that hope with realism, because Flicker Fade is correct that it's (unfortunately) probably true. Different types of investigations are more or less likely to lead to mistakes. This isn't a case of one eyewitness identifying a suspected burglar from a 2-second glimpse, or the cops trying to reconstruct a crime days, weeks, or months afterward. TV shows and movies aside, the vast majority of the time, if the police have enough evidence to get a warrant, the person did it. And 600 images and videos is obviously not a case of "He clicked on one video and didn't realize the actor was underage." His attorney (understandably) denied all of the allegations, but also made the odd comment "It’s important to differentiate between violent sex offenders (and) these kinds of cases, because there’s a big difference. We tend to lump them all together." Nothing is certain, but when you're trying to distance your client from violent sex offenders, it's likely you're setting up an argument of degrees, because you know an outright denial isn't going to withstand the evidence.

So by all means, we should all hold out hope and extend the presumption of innocence; but we should also be prepared for the worst. And anyone who feels that they aren't able to separate the work from the creator (or who don't want any royalties going his way), maybe hold off on that preorder until we know more.

[TomSlick]

Which is weird because he wrote like 100 issues of Wally.

I'm also of the mindset that Barry was a better character by staying dead(although his return in Final Crisis was awesome, it should have been temporary...)

Pretty much.
It was nice to see the legacy carried on as Barry's old friends started to respect Wally.
I think a short return would be OK or even some kind of elder position where he is rarely seen would be OK but a replacement was BS.

The silver lining in everything is that Johns, Lee and Didio have made it to where I'm almost not reading any DC monthly especially. The writing talent is the dregs and some of the good ones - Lemire and Soule - jumped ship.

And they continue to let artists who are good artists write. And they can't write worth a crap.

I won't even get into how bad Vertigo is right now. Thankfully there is Image which I would never imagine myself saying 20 years ago.

[Vilynne]

It's not the first time, unfortunately...

Awww no! That's terrible.

[Captain Craig]

He might profit some from the royalties from those books, so you might have qualms about that. But acknowledging that he was a talented writer (for the 90's) is not endorsing his crimes.

This. It also won't be enough royalties to get him off the hook if he's as guilty as it appears right now.
It was deplorable but it's not going to stop me from getting the material.

Most Hollywood actors, singers and athletes are as liberal and ideologically different from me as could be, I still go to the movies, buy music and attend games. I know that's not a crime but some have been arrested for actual crimes, just not child porn.

[doolittle]

Most Hollywood actors, singers and athletes are as liberal and ideologically different from me as could be, I still go to the movies, buy music and attend games. I know that's not a crime but some have been arrested for actual crimes, just not child porn.

That's not even close at all. Chuck Dixon has way different politics than I do, but I continue to buy collections of his work and love it. I can't fault someone for not wanting to be reminded of the Gerard Jones accusations every time they get to a title page in a GL collection.

[Vilynne]

That's not even close at all. Chuck Dixon has way different politics than I do, but I continue to buy collections of his work and love it. I can't fault someone for not wanting to be reminded of the Gerard Jones accusations every time they get to a title page in a GL collection.

Haven't heard any news about the GL collection so far. Changes that is. Its next week, so I feel like its way too late to make changes or cancel it. I have to ask everyone...

If someone gifted you the collection, knowing you enjoy GL and comics, would you reject the gift? Would you throw it away? Not trying to start anything or be a dick, just curious given to how close the release date is, and of the news.

[AJpyro]

Haven't heard any news about the GL collection so far. Changes that is. Its next week, so I feel like its way too late to make changes or cancel it. I have to ask everyone...

If someone gifted you the collection, knowing you enjoy GL and comics, would you reject the gift? Would you throw it away? Not trying to start anything or be a dick, just curious given to how close the release date is, and of the news.

Maybe DC could include a memo that all proceeds for Jones's GL would go to charities/and such for abuse victims? Can they do that? I mean...I might still buy it due to completion but just this would go over great.

[Vilynne]

Maybe DC could include a memo that all proceeds for Jones's GL would go to charities/and such for abuse victims? Can they do that? I mean...I might still buy it due to completion but just this would go over great.

Or is it possible they can suspend all royalties to him all together?