Pre-Crisis Karate Kid vs Bills

[Yeoman]

The entire mortal universe is below Hell. The Dragon Ball Hell is mostly the place where the souls of bad people get recycled and send back to the world of the living.

The one thing that's really below everything is the Demon Realm where Dabura came from.

Actually, if accurate, that picture actually lends credence to the theory that the Dragonball universe is MUCH smaller than our own.

Snake way is shown reaching from the center of the afterlife to the edge. It twists and winds a bit, so it's maybe the length of the diameter, rather than just the radius. And was Traversable in under a year by a guy who was just starting to reach light speed movement.

[Hazard]

Actually, if accurate, that picture actually lends credence to the theory that the Dragonball universe is MUCH smaller than our own.

Snake way is shown reaching from the center of the afterlife to the edge. It twists and winds a bit, so it's maybe the length of the diameter, rather than just the radius. And was Traversable in under a year by a guy who was just starting to reach light speed movement.

Trying to use something Toriyama has drawn to get accurate scaling is not the best idea.

The Snake Way is drawn so we can see it. That's all there is to it.

Canonically its only known measurement is 1 million Km.

That'd make the universe smaller than the solar system by the way. Considerably so.

Jupiter which Bulma goes to when testing Kami's ship is at least 628 million kilometers away already.

Namek is... considerably further away given it takes a ship that gets to Jupiter almost instantly one month to get there.

[abmccray]

Toriyama ALWAYS draws celestial bodies off-scale.

There is in-universe direct evidence that their universe is a similar size to our own (using Namek, which was light years away, and showing scaled galaxies on screen).

Those illustrations are to show universal relationships and not scale depictions, although I'm not sure what the sun is supposed to be doing up there in heaven.

[Surtur]

It's almost like Toriyama put as much thought into the cosmology of the DBZ universe as he did into thinking power levels were totally the way to go.

[big_adventure]

Yup, that drawing is... special.

OTOH - you have Bulma going instantly to Jupiter in a ship that took a month to get to Namek.

Saiyan ships were faster: that tech, built into a ship by Dr. Briefs, was indeed significantly faster, with Goku's trip to Namek taking much less time than a month. And it took Vegeta and Nappa a full year to get to Earth in Saiyan ships - implying that wherever they came from, it was a hell of a lot further away than Namek (figure at least a factor of 20-30x).

So I don't know if the universe is unlimited, but it certainly is big.

[Melchior]

Honestly, I'm still kicking myself for only realizing last week that Bills could also be romanized as Beerus. And, taking puns into account, that means that Beerus means "beers" and Whis must then be named after "whiskey". And that Toriyama must have gone drinking before naming the pair.

EDIT: I also find it funny that when I went to check my logic, it basically boiled down to "Beerus is supposed to be virus", with Toriyama not getting the memo and going "Beerus must obviously mean beer, so let's name his pal after whiskey!". I managed to follow Toriyama's logic perfectly.

[Q-Power]

Can't Bills at full power destroy multiple galaxies? If so then wouldn't Pre-Crisis Karate Kid gets atleast knocked out for the 20 count?

[abmccray]

Can't Bills at full power destroy multiple galaxies? If so then wouldn't Pre-Crisis Karate Kid gets atleast knocked out for the 20 count?

In theory, but we haven't seen it on screen and don't have an "official" translation to know what Whis was talking about there (we sometimes take character statements if the character would have full obvious knowledge of the vents or measurements and is obviously not exaggerating or lying).

[Q-Power]

In theory, but we haven't seen it on screen and don't have an "official" translation to know what Whis was talking about there (we sometimes take character statements if the character would have full obvious knowledge of the vents or measurements and is obviously not exaggerating or lying).

Didn't Bills destroy those planets by flying into them? So if he powers up and do a blast wouldn't he be able to atleast bust a solar system?

[Surtur]

Didn't Bills destroy those planets by flying into them? So if he powers up and do a blast wouldn't he be able to atleast bust a solar system?

This logic makes no sense. He destroys a planet by flying through it..so he can destroy solar systems and galaxies? I'm confused why being able to fly through planets and destroy them suddenly means you can now create explosions with a blast radius that covers millions upon millions of miles. Bills is only a galaxy buster if..we see him bust a galaxy. Same with solar systems really.

[abmccray]

Didn't Bills destroy those planets by flying into them? So if he powers up and do a blast wouldn't he be able to atleast bust a solar system?

He physically destroys planets effortlessly, yes, and his job is basically the Galactus on the DBZ universe, but we use feats here, which we need. I believe Whis confirmed him to be at least solar system level, but I'd like an official translation before we spot it to him, really.

[Surtur]

Can't Bills at full power destroy multiple galaxies? If so then wouldn't Pre-Crisis Karate Kid gets atleast knocked out for the 20 count?

You realize that even if this were true(it isn't) that KK still is way faster then Bills?

[Q-Power]

Guys don't you think its a bit close minded to just think that Bills might not be able to do something because we didn't see it? You don't need to be shown everything

[Surtur]

Guys don't you think its a bit close minded to just think that Bills might not be able to do something because we didn't see it? You don't need to be shown everything

Yeah, the problem is the whole "we use feats" thing. Arguing about what a character *might* be able to do is pointless. There also aren't any feats to indicate he has power on such a level, regardless of what anyone in the movie actually says. Flying through planets doesn't equate to solar system busting. Even easily flying through planets to destroy them doesn't equate to that.

I also find your close minded comment strange, we don't say we have to see DBZ characters do everything. Goku has never been shown destroying a planet, but I'm comfortable saying he can without needing to see that. When it comes to any character busting solar systems or beyond? Eh, I rather think we need actual feats then to be on the safe side.

[Guy1]

Guys don't you think its a bit close minded to just think that Bills might not be able to do something because we didn't see it? You don't need to be shown everything

That's the way the rules work here.